Roundhouse FM

Radio News from British Columbia

Re: Roundhouse FM

Postby Mike Cleaver » Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:57 pm

Newspaper "reporters" should check their facts before they press "send."
Don Shafer did not "run" CHUM-FM.
He was a jock there in the early 70s.
Don did manage the Sun Group of stations in the Okanagan for the Slaights before they sold out to Bell.
I wish Don and his crew success with their new venture but as others have pointed out, selling radio time is getting tougher all the time.
Technically speaking, what I've heard so far sounds excellent, unlike some of the big commercial FMs in this city.
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Re: Roundhouse FM

Postby Aaron » Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:10 pm

Mike Cleaver wrote:Don did manage the Sun Group of stations in the Okanagan for the Slaights before they sold out to Bell.


Speaking of fact-checking, Slaights didn't sell anything to Bell.
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Re: Roundhouse FM

Postby Jim Walters » Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:27 pm

Shafe once retired for two weeks? I think the holiday after WIC tossed his ass out of Q107 was a little longer than that.

Missing from his resume was the stint as PD at CFMI when he replaced Pamela M Burge.

As for the Slaight's, they sold Standard to Astral which was later bought by Bell.
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Re: Roundhouse FM

Postby the-real-deal » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:41 am

I congratulate Mr. Don Shafer on getting yesterday's launch, successful, and wish him all the best.

Fortunately, Vancouver is a large enough city to accomodate this type of urban station.

Regarding the issues discussed here, such as reach of signal, since Roundhouse is being marketed as a local, Vancouver urban radio station, who cares whether the signal is heard in Aldergrove.

It's obvious that Roundhouse aiming for a niche audience and that audience is located (primarily) in Vancouver, but also, Burnaby, North shore and Richmond.

That's still a pretty large swath of audience, if you ask me !

CITR and Coop Radio have a similar reach and they do very, very well.

The biggest concern is "for profit businesses" (like Roundhouse Radio) using the community radio station model, whereas REAL community radio stations must be owned and operated by a not for profit society

However, if Mr Shafer had started a not for profit society and a class b community station, he would be limited to 50 watts of erp power.

So, what we have with the current CRTC rules, is essentially two classes of community radio stations. One for the very rich or wealthy and also, one for registered, non profits groups.

There is something very WRONG with that hypocrisy of legislation, if you ask me !

However, in fairness to Mr. Shafer, he is not the first to jump on the "rich man's community radio band wagon." Current and former passengers on this wagon include Matthew McBride, of CKPM, the former East Indian owner of the Saltspring Island community station, (now defunct) and many others.

The CRTC needs to make up its mind what community radio is really supposed to be ?

Is it for not for profit groups, or the wealthy ?

Why b.s. the public. Turn every radio station licence into a "rich man's licence," give them the same amount of power, and then the rules would be much more fair ?
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Re: Roundhouse FM

Postby jon » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:17 pm

Without disagreeing with the overall validity of your argument, I think it is important to note that CFRO (Co-op Radio) is 11,000 watts ERP, CiTR (UBC Radio) is 1800 watts and CKUA has 16 FM transmitters across Alberta, some with 100,000 watts. All are non-profit and certainly follow the campus/community radio model.

In other words, it is possible to be licensed for more than 50 watts as a non-profit. The real issue these days in major markets is finding a viable frequency.
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Re: Roundhouse FM

Postby the-real-deal » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:21 pm

Hi Jon:

I forgot to mention that all community radio class b licences must start off at 50 watts or less of eradiated power, and the signal is also typically assigned to an unprotected channel.

Is it possible for community stations to broadcast at higher power ? Yes.

Both CITR and CFRO, as far as I am aware, started off as 50 watt, unprotected community stations, then, successfully reapplied for a boost in power. (CITR, I believe started off at 49 watts).

CFRO was also the first community radio station in B.C.

The main benefit of Don Shafer's application is, he is essentially using the community radio model, without having to start off at 50 watts like the others, plus his channel is "protected" and does not have to be moved.

His application is completely legal, of course, but what it does is creates an unofficial, "rich man's" community radio station that belies the CRTC's philosophy of making radio accessible to not for profit organizations.

This very interesting urban local format is no slam dunk to pull off in a market like Vancouver. However, if anyone can pull it off, it would be Don Shafer, but the transition between full commercial and rich's man community radio, is a transition for him, nonetheless.
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Re: Roundhouse FM

Postby Aaron » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:10 pm

Class B is 50 watts or less, but there's nothing saying a community station has to be (or start off as) class B.
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Re: Roundhouse FM

Postby the-real-deal » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:42 pm

Aaron wrote:Class B is 50 watts or less, but there's nothing saying a community station has to be (or start off as) class B.


That's true. But, since there are two, existing community stations in the Vancouver market, already, it would have been a tough sell for Don and his team to introduce a third similar community station to the CRTC, even with 50 watts or more.

Therefore, I think that Roundhouse Radio likely took the best route it could, as previously mentioned, a path already safely travelled by Mr. McBride and previous to him, the founder of Salt Spring Island Community Radio, who later sold it to the East Indian (who fumbled the football?)

However, as we have learned with McBride and others, it ain't no slam dunk, financially. But, think about this, people, Don is probably the best there is, (in Canada?) in terms of doing this type of station. He's got the partners, the deep pockets and the smarts. Again, we wish him all the best !
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Re: Roundhouse FM

Postby Aaron » Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:52 pm

Yes, but I believe he, and his partners, truly believe they can make money at it. Either way, the application hit so many CRTC hot buttons it didn't matter.

I'm cynical about it, but I'm cheering for this one. This station succeeding is good for everyone.
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Re: Roundhouse FM

Postby the-real-deal » Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:47 pm

I agree. They can make money, no question.

They will have to pay much attention to their lovely sounding internet station and the social media, as well as the terrestrial, as a vehicle for making money.

The sales staff will need to understand this, too, and educate people about the value of the internet station.

Young people do buy into the internet, they will want to grow their audience from the internet, down.

They need to get that younger audience who have basically given up on terrestrial radio.

Maybe they will need to go into the Vancouver school system and promote Roundhouse Radio at the grass roots level.

Maybe put teenaged deejays and talk show hosts back on the air, just like in the 1960's ?

The idea that radio offers nothing for young people is nonsense. You need to get young people involved !

Also, their daily news/sports/weather packages are revenue generators and so are the talk shows.

Radio can be used as a tool for social innovation and transforming public opinion, if you have the right attitude, yourself ?
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Re: Roundhouse FM

Postby J Kendrick » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:06 pm

How much longer is Roundhouse FM likely to stay on air ...
... than Roy Hennessy's Shore 104 of just six years ago?
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Re: Roundhouse FM

Postby kal » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:09 am

Shore did resell at quite a profit for Hennessey et al. There's clearly a demand for spectrum. Roundhouse should be good for the long haul. Interesting that CKNW should begin HD coverage pretty much the same day as 983 launched. Whether or not HD can have an impact remains to be seen. 'NW really had no choice if it is to retain any relevance in the downtown peninsula.
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Re: Roundhouse FM

Postby the-real-deal » Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:39 pm

Here's the irony. The launch of Roundhouse Radio will force 'NW and other Vancouver commercial stations of its kind, like News 1130, to get better.

Not just better financially, but "better" spiritually ?

The Vancouver news business and how it has been delivered, has been a source of notoriety for years now. There is also a clear lack of humanity about the radio and television business, including the news business, as in screw unto others ?

The folks at Radiowest (and Micheal's website) have been talking about it for years, but no one is doing anything about it !

The recent events of Roanoke, Virginia, at the ABC tv station there, with one former news reporter murdering two others, brings to the foreground, how this industry really treats its workers ?

The reason that we have tv reporters killing each other is because the industry is obcessed with making money at the expense of everything else. Radio is not much better.

Perhaps Roundhouse Radio, if they really buy into the "rich man's" community radio concept, can change the current radio news culture, in this respect, giving it a much needed shot of humanity and more balanced thinking.
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Re: Roundhouse FM

Postby Howaboutthat » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:30 pm

Re: the above post... I have never read so much drivel in my life.

the-real-deal wrote: The launch of Roundhouse Radio will force 'NW and other Vancouver commercial stations of its kind, like News 1130, to get better.


Why and how? The two stations you quote are news/talk driven and have the staff to do it. Roundhouse has 2 people (as far as I know) in their newsroom. What can they possibly bring to the table in their small broadcast footprint that the others don't do already. Remember NW2 was going to take on News1130?

the-real-deal wrote:The recent events of Roanoke, Virginia, at the ABC tv station there, with one former news reporter murdering two others, brings to the foreground, how this industry really treats its workers ? The reason that we have tv reporters killing each other is because the industry is obcessed with making money at the expense of everything else.


Um... NO! The reason people were killed was due to the instability, mental or otherwise of the murderer. To bring that up in a thread about a new radio station in Vancouver is beyond headshaking. :violent1:

the-real-deal wrote:Perhaps Roundhouse Radio, if they really buy into the "rich man's" community radio concept, can change the current radio news culture, in this respect, giving it a much needed shot of humanity and more balanced thinking.


Perhaps you could explain what this means keeping in mind they have 2 news people. It seems to me you're asking for an awful lot from a station with what will be a shoestring budget after the initial investors' money runs out.
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Re: Roundhouse FM

Postby jon » Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:49 pm

the-real-deal wrote:So, what we have with the current CRTC rules, is essentially two classes of community radio stations. One for the very rich or wealthy and also, one for registered, non profits groups.

A bigger mystery to me, in terms of Radio Regulation in Canada, is how cheap and easy it appears to be to get a 50 watt FM license without the CRTC even being aware of it:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19124

These appear to be for-profit operations.
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