What's It Going To Take...?

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Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby pave » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:52 am

Meanwhile, I think it would be worthwhile to know what, specifically, CHUM was/is doing in Winterpeg that qualifies as "experimental".

That is, IF the distinctions can be identified - not necessarily assuming that's an easy task. Maybe the adjustments are not that significant either.

What say you, wpgguy, (or anyone familiar with the market and station)...?
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Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby pave » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:34 am

Had a long, one-to-one, eyeball-to-eyeball chat (in my own driveway, no less) last night with a former 10-year GM of a Toronto station and his thoughts on this matter were, while somewhat surprising to me as a confession, fairly consistent with what a number of posters here have already opined - and often.

He lamented that Radio has been the architect of its own demise in that the management-presumption has been that Radio was, primarily, a Music Source. He then agreed how that proposition has been twisted and generalised to become one of: Radio is only a Music Source - with a continuance of all other elements being peripheral and no more than the causes of a financial drain on the companies.

His own experience - now, as a listener - is one in which he longs for real Personalities.... people with some depth, wit and the abilities to communicate.

We discussed the idea that Radio was not really dead - as in: without a pulse, tagged and slabbed, but, most certainly, stagnant and a breeding ground for disease-ridden insects.

A question I put to him was about from where these now-necessary Personalities might come and what would be the criteria for identifying the appropriate, New Deal, Radio Talent.

He said he'd have to ponder that one for awhile.
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Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby WPGGUY » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:36 am

pave wrote:Meanwhile, I think it would be worthwhile to know what, specifically, CHUM was/is doing in Winterpeg that qualifies as "experimental".



Umm, you know what after thinking about it, I realized that they are not really doing anything different. They are playing with a different mixture of music, but how its presented and the announcers are the same as every other station.

This might be harder than I first thought to break the decay !!
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Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby pave » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:45 am

Thanks for that, wpgguy, as this information demonstrates - at least without further evidence - how station management is at a loss as to what, specifically, to address in order to break out of the mud/sludge/crap.

I think we can all appreciate that these stations are being run in fear of The Bottom Line. (Canadian station-revenue, I'm told, is down between 5-6 percent as of the latest information.)

Any other company in any other business that refuses to improve its products and/or services does so at tremendous risk to themselves.

Radio has gone out of its way to diminish those services.

A Music Format can be created and adjusted over a weekend. Presentation Formats can be downloaded as a 50-cent app.

Meanwhile, we still have an (ignored) responsibility to develop programming that is appealing and commercial content that is influential.

I am obliged to wonder if there any individuals left either in the ranks, the officer-corps or the embedded mercenaries (consultants) who are qualified and willing to bring these responsibilities to the fore.
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Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby Mike Cleaver » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:22 pm

Having done some "consulting," most radio station owners and managers simply don't want to hear the "truth" unless it meshes completely with their version.
That's why I don't work for any of the majors any more.
They want "consultants" simply so said "consultant" can take the blame when something goes wrong.
It's a layer of Teflon between them and their boss(es.)
They simply cry "So and so said this would work" when whatever their latest move was bombs.
If you tell them what's really wrong, they feel it reflects badly on them and they simply close their eyes, ears and minds.
The real problem is at the very top.
Too many stations owned by too few corporations with the top guy (there are few top gals) who have absolutely no experience with broadcasting, other than turning on or off a radio or tv set.
Bean counters also don't know how to handle or deal with those who actually have a talent for the business.
They're afraid of them.
Everyone these days is in CYA mode, fearing anyone with any real knowledge, information, talent and initiative may get the job they're presently bungling.
Those in positions of power don't want to lose it.
Some companies will go to extremes, losing large amounts of coin because of stupid ideas pushed by "the guy at the top."
Finally, the house of cards collapses, (find your own examples) and the idiot gets turfed, never to be heard from again.
Others have said "back to local ownership, a limit on the number of stations owned, back to the model that worked in the '60s and 70's when radio had style, individuality, personality, real information, not the latest Paris Lohan updates and variety.
That would be a great start.
There is a lot of talent out there "on the beach" because the corpse recognized that they had talent, brains and individuality, something that definitely does not fit in today's corporate broadcaster mentality.
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Engineering, News, Voice work and Consulting
Vancouver, BC, Canada

54 years experience at some of Canada's Premier Broadcasting Stations
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Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby pave » Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:04 pm

...when radio had style, individuality, personality, real information, not the latest Paris Lohan updates and variety.


No one with any experience is going to argue a preference for today's maudlin offerings over those you mention, Mike.

However, and I am quite sincere about this... I wouldn't be campaigning for a return to those models as a viable option - not any longer.

Lemme attempt to es'plain, Lucy.

If Radio is to get out of the morass, I am satisfied it will take a great deal more than just a return to, shall we say, "Personality Radio"...?

It will take a far better set of communication tools and models - greater, more precise, more appealing and more influential than the intuitions and creativity with which so many of the Talents would arrive at the microphone... as special as some of them were. All facets of on-air work would have to be impacted and addressed - Talent, News, Commercial Creative, Marketing.

To be sure, Mike, there is a lot of Talent, right now on The Beach and that group may make up a fine, perhaps outstanding resource-pool.

But, I suggest, it won't be enough, particularly given the expense that extra, real, live individuals would bring to the mighty corporations.

Yet, indeed, the Key is: Talent!
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Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby hagopian » Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:03 pm

The industry is not paying a living wage. People have to eat. The sucker factories at the "schools" are turning out broke folks that get placed in gigs that twenty year vets used to kill for.

No one else notice how many people we gunned as the consolidation happened?
No coincidence.
Profits fat. Salaries low. Use of interns at TV stations- up.

It is no longer a career -it is a poorly paid job.
Time to move along. Aloha all.
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Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby pave » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:09 pm

Can't argue with your reality, hag, and a shared reality at that.

However, this thread's purpose is about discussing what it's going to take to turn this sucker around.

By the way, hag. "Don't bring your guns to town, son. Leave your guns at home, Bill." - Johnny Cash
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Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby Hallicrafters » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:24 pm

Talent won't do it alone, content is probably more important, consistency and professionalism also play a part.
All things that cost money, money the operators don't have. It will be self correcting, it will dive to depths you can't imagine then it will very gradually change under new operators with fewer licenses. If the consumer society is over then commercials will also be a problem. What we see in radio is also happening in other areas, in the U.S. car sales are down 26%, in China up 54%, although figures lie and liars figure. But my guess is there's lots of work in Chinese media.

It may be a systematic failure, much like the dirty 30's. Every 85 years this crap happens. I'm somewhat thankful that I got out, even though I loved it so much I would have done it for free. (and sometimes I did) LOL
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Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby Destro » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:43 pm

Hallicrafters wrote: gradually change under new operators with fewer licenses.


I don't think less licenses is the answer. I am a big fan of more freqs and more competition. Part of the problem I see it... is still not enough hungry broadcasters fighting for money.

Also the audience needs to want want it. If what we sell, no one wants to buy.. then do we have a "right" to earn a living selling?
blog: http://morningaftershow.wordpress.com "A voice of reason amongst the doubters!" - Sandclan
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Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby pave » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:13 pm

Talent won't do it alone, content is probably more important, consistency and professionalism also play a part.


Point taken, Halli.

Of course, some combination of professionally-delivered material will still be as much a comment about formats as about process. But, information served as if it were piss-on-a-plate will also fail. Hell, it is failing... frequently.

Meanwhile, Destro suggests:
Also the audience needs to want, want it.


Our challenge, I submit, is to: generate a wanton desire for what we have to offer. Audiences don't know if they are punched or bored, yet pollsters keep asking and keep getting useless, that is: unuseable information.

Our task is to start providing that which people will sample, enjoy and continue to use.

(As an aside: Blow that all-request thingy out the back door. It's patronizing to the greatest number of audience at any given time. And if someone flips out over hearing their favourite played on the Radio, should we also trust them with car keys?)
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Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby jon » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:14 pm

Destro wrote:I don't think less licenses is the answer.

History seems to teach that, within reason, number of licenses isn't the deciding factor as to whether you have a healthy radio market.

The history I'm referring to is the '60s, by the end of which Seattle had 26 licenses, I think we counted at the time, and Vancouver had 6; 5 if you only count commercial licenses, but CJJC might count, too, bringing it back to 6. Both markets were about the same size. And everybody agreed, at the time, that both were healthy radio markets. It took the end of the Boeing SST contract in late 1970 to hurt the Seattle radio market in a big way.

Both markets had stations that didn't make money. And those that made lots of it, no matter how many other stations changed their format at one time or another to try and fight head on.

I used the words "within reason" at the beginning, and I think the argument applies more to number of owners than number of licenses in a market. Of any size. Too few -- one in a small market, two in a medium sized market, and 3-4 in a large market -- and you can have an unhealthy radio market. Where everyone safely cuts out their format niche and no longer has to "try".
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Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby Howaboutthat » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:18 pm

jon wrote: It took the end of the Boeing SST contract in late 1970 to hurt the Seattle radio market in a big way.



??????????????????????????????????????????????????????? :shock:
Houston, We're dealing with morons!.
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Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby jon » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:46 pm

The U.S. federal government's cancellation of the contract with Boeing to built a "Supersonic Transport" (SST) made Seattle a pretty nasty place to live for several years. The huge loss of jobs (about 40,000 in Seattle at Boeing and many spinoff losses at other companies), especially among the many who had moved in from out of state, led to a lot of poverty, a big increase in crime and a really lousy economy for several years. A significant number of retailers either went out of business or closed all but the most profitable parts of their stores.

The SST was, as the name suggests, a large airplane that was to fly faster than sound, to compete with the Concorde.

If that wasn't enough, Boeing also faced cancellation of almost all of their work on the Apollo space program.
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Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby ThisIsNotCBC » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:07 pm

jon wrote:The history I'm referring to is the '60s, by the end of which Seattle had 26 licenses, I think we counted at the time, and Vancouver had 6; 5 if you only count commercial licenses, but CJJC might count, too, bringing it back to 6.


Let's see, taking into account what there was in Vancouver for radio licences at the time...

CJOR - Jim Pattison
CBU and CBU-FM - the CBC
CKLG and CKLG-FM - Moffat Broadcasting
CKNW - Western Broadcasting
CKWX - Selkirk Communications
CHQM and QM-FM - Vancouver Broadcast Associates
CFUN - Radio C-FUN Ltd.
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