Best Daytimer DX Verified

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Best Daytimer DX Verified

Postby Eldon-Mr.CFAY » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:57 pm

Greetings Everyone,

Just thought I would post a question on this topic. My favorite type of AM radio station are the daytime only stations. From a dxers point of view they present an interesting challenge for hearing distant stations at sunset, sunrise or even during the day with very sensitive equipment. In addition to that they are a very economical low budget way to start a licensed AM station as far as operating costs go because obviously you don't have to pay for hydro or staff at night or all-night operation. There have been many a successful daytime station in the USA, some of them still operating today like WAWK 1140 Kendallvile, Indiana which streams on the internet al-night and recently got a low power FM translator frequency or repeater. WAWK has been 250 watts day. only for years and I have the sgn-off and sign-on taped off my Wi-Fi Radios even though the regular streaming continued afterwords. WPAQ 740 Mt. Airy, North Carolina with its unique bluegrass and old country format with lots of local info is another successful but higher powered daytimer at 10,000 watts sunrise to sunset, again has been on the air for years. I have never heard either of these stations while dxing over the air in B.C. but have heard and verified others.

My best heard and verified Daytime Only station is KIQS 1560 Willows, California at 250 watts.
They are stil on-air but I verified and heard them back in 1979 or so. News Director sent me a letter verifying my reception and a nice one too. They were MOR and local news/info. but have been local Spanish/Mexican format for about 10 years now or so. My question to Dan, Jon and other dxers or former dxers out there is this. What is your best Daytime Only station that you have heard or got verified by QSL Card or Letter???? Jim VE7ROX is checking on his QSLs and trying to find the one that is the best that he heard. If the station has gone dark or is now fulltime it doesn't matter I just am interested in what your best Daytime only reception station is?? Many thanks.

73s and Good listening to all,, Eldon
Bye . . Mr. CFAY "Frequently On The Frequency"
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Re: Best Daytimer DX Verified

Postby jon » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:16 pm

First of all, I moved this into a new thread in the DX section.

While some daytimers are still alive and well -- KOMW-680 in Omak, Washington, survives by simulcasting with an FM -- daytimers really suffered badly around 1970 when the FCC forced them to either not sign-on until sunrise, or apply for extremely reduced power from 6:00 a.m. to sunrise in the winter. About 3 years later, with Daylight Saving Time all winter for a year or two, some Northern stations had to wait until 9:00 a.m. or even later to sign on.

Given that Morning Drive is where the money is, this really crippled most of them.

The rule change also made it a lot harder to hear daytimers for DX'ers. Especially those that really pushed the rules to the limit, like an Idaho station, close to the Time Zone boundary, that signed on at 4:30 a.m. Mountain, 3:30 Pacific every morning until the rules changed.

I'm not sure what my best verified DX of a daytimer was, but KPOR-1370 in Quincy, Washington, would certainly rank up there among the best. When I finally heard them around 1969, that meant I had finally heard every one of the sixty-something AM stations in Washington. Quincy is near Moses Lake, pretty much in the dead centre of Washington State. I heard them just before their sunset signoff.

Now the next big question: how many people have ever heard a Canadian daytimer?
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Re: Best Daytimer DX Verified

Postby skyvalleyradio » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:44 pm

best verified daytimer while growing up in the Kerrisdale area in the 60's was KUIK 1360 Hillsboro - just west of Portland. Here in the Goofy Islands, I would say KTBI 810 Ephrata or little 500 watt KENU Enumclaw are the furthest heard. Out at Tofino/Ucluelet many years ago when KSWB was a daytimer on 930, it came in like a local there - still strong on fulltime 840

I can't say I've ever heard a Canadian daytimer as DX. A few times while travelling through Sask. in the 60's, I heard CFGR 710 Gravelbourg sign off at sunset on 710, then sign on for night on 1230
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Re: Best Daytimer DX Verified

Postby Dan Sys » Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:54 pm

Kind of a tough topic to put into perspective as a lot of former daytimers are now fulltime (with greatly reduced power at nights). A few that I have logged over the years that come to mind are KBIG 740 Avalon, CA, KVIP 540 Redding, CA, KBHB 810 Sturgis, SD, KSPD 790 Boise, ID and KBGN 1060 Caldwell, ID.

Right now your only chance at hearing a Canadian daytimer would be CKOT 1510 in Tillsonburg, ON. That could change as there is currently an application in front of the CRTC for a station operating on 1480 (days) & 1490 (nights) from Mississauga.
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Re: Best Daytimer DX Verified

Postby jon » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:06 pm

Well, I found one more distant daytimer that I heard: WRFD-880 in Worthington, Ohio. I caught just a minute of them before WCBS New York signed on, on a Monday morning after weekly preventative maintenance on the transmitter.

That was in 1968, but it took about 8 months to get the verification letter.

I also once heard CFGR in Gravelbourg on 710 from Vancouver, before KIRO signed on, on a Monday morning.
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Re: Best Daytimer DX Verified

Postby Anotherwpgguy » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:12 pm

CKOT Tillsonburg ... jeepers.

I was their Chief Engineer ... well, the only Engineering person on staff working for Mr Lamers Senior, so I therefore deduced that I was the Chief Engineer and assumed the title if anyone asked .... that was when I was 17 years old. Installed their first 1 Kw FM TX and put it on-air, then also upgraded their AM to a Gates BC-1G with a Mosely remote control system.

http://txrxqa.wordpress.com/test-page-first-added/

It was rather funny to deal with the Radio Inspectors that showed up one day .... checked our tx readings logs, then it was out to the TX site, walked them through everything from AC input to the building to the phasing huts and tower current readings, they asked all kinds of questions to which I gave them correct answers, and they kept inferring that I might be a little young for the work .... but then left me alone from there on out.

What hilarity.
Now I run pretty much the same power level from my basement!

Back onto the thread theme, I think my best DX was listening to CKOT at the General Motors plant in Oshawa on a car radio ... I thought that was pretty slick. Signal quality was typical of DX, and likely not even my dedicated grandmother would have tolerated the static and splatter levels to hear anything.

AWG
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Re: Best Daytimer DX Verified

Postby Eldon-Mr.CFAY » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:10 am

Greetings Everyone,
Many thanks for all the response to my question of what your best Daytime Am Radio station reception was or is? Thats fine Jon putting this thread into the Dx Category. I just thought the reference to KWPA was part of it considering how long this station was a local daytimer and the drastic change that just happened. Regarding KOMW 680 I got them verified by an IRCA dx test years ago with I think Jerry Peterson as the Chief Engineer. He had worked there a long time. Also when I have travelled to Calgary in the 1980s and more recently to see my cousins in Penticton and Summerland I believe KOMW 680 AM is separate from the FM station with at least half the daily programming. Quite a few daytimers do still sign-off but now have streaming all-night on the internet and some have new FM translator or relay transmitters with low power at night which gives them a signal at night but with low power and low cost. They still sign-off at sunset or near sunset and sign-on near sunrise. You are right Jon some do have much lower power an hour or two before sunrise in winter months etc. too. But basically they are daytimers. In about 1986 o 87 the FCC licensed about 1200 daytimers of the over 2000 operating in the USA to operate with very low power or low power at night anywher from 5 watts to maybe 150 watts at night with a lot of them operating at 50 0r 60 watts. Some chose not to use the low night power of 5 or 10 watts and remained day. only not operating at night even though the FCC had given them a low night power. Many or most of them do use it but that still leaves about 1000 still operating across the USA with only Streaming Audio on Internet (if used) or an FM relay or Translator at low power at night.

Yes some Daytimers did and do suffer from later sunrise sign-on in winter but there are still quite a few successful stations in the USA operating. Also there are som high power daytimers like KCTA 1030 Corpus Christi, Texas with 50 KW. Day., some of these are Religious or Paid Religious High Power stations, KTBI 810 Ephrata is another example of this too.

Again many, many thanks for the response, great reading and anyone else care to comment on their best Daytime DX reeception would be much appreciated. I really enjoyed reading about CKOT 1510 from anotherwinnipegguy's response as a young chief engineer. If you want to comment further about CKOT's techcnical operation or any dx reports you may have received back then that would be most interesting. By the way I applied for an announcing or board operators job at CKOT way back in 1969 or so when I was a young kik into radio. I got a real nice letter from Robert Lamers inviting me to come to CKOT and do several audition tapes and visit the station which I never did. I should have though but I was a young teenager still wet behind my ears and felt it was a long way to go with no certainty of a job for sure. But they certainly were receptiive to my letter, it actually might have been sent in 1968. To this day I have still never visited CKOT but might do it this time on my birthday visit to Ontario if I have time. I definitely want to check into the new All-news station which is new on 960 in Mississauga, Ontario CKNT which is not on-air yet. Yes Dan we could end up with a couple more Daytimers in Eastern Canada. I also found out about a Part 15 legal non-licensed AM on 1580 in Sherwood Park, Alberta that might apply for a daytime station with thier old radio dramas and local info. radio format. I have been in touch with the owner, a friendly guy and a small business owner in the Sherwood Park and Edmonton area. Theres some new dx for you JON, 1580 Sherwood Park, Alberta.

So thanks again for all the response. More later. I*m putting together a directory and info. guide of Daytime Only Stations in North America. Will be printing it later this year. If anyone would like to buy a copy just write or email me. Take care, good listening, 73s!!!!
Bye . . Mr. CFAY "Frequently On The Frequency"
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Re: Best Daytimer DX Verified

Postby radiofan » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:58 am

Eldon-Mr.CFAY wrote:Greetings Everyone,

Yes some Daytimers did and do suffer from later sunrise sign-on in winter but there are still quite a few successful stations in the USA operating. Also there are som high power daytimers like KCTA 1030 Corpus Christi, Texas with 50 KW. Day., some of these are Religious or Paid Religious High Power stations, KTBI 810 Ephrata is another example of this too.


I recall hearing the KTBI sign off one time while driving thru Rogers Pass around sunset. Part of the sign off was the religious wing nut that ran the station urging his flock of listeners and supporters to
complain to the FCC about other stations on 810 like KGO in San Francisco and CHQR in Calgary being allowed to stay on the air 24 hours a day doing the work of the devil and poor KTBI doing the work of
the lord being forced off the air at sunset. They still sign of at sunset, so I guess their prayers weren't answered.


Eldon-Mr.CFAY wrote:Greetings Everyone,

I also found out about a Part 15 legal non-licensed AM on 1580 in Sherwood Park, Alberta that might apply for a daytime station with thier old radio dramas and local info. radio format. I have been in touch with the owner, a friendly guy and a small business owner in the Sherwood Park and Edmonton area. Theres some new dx for you JON, 1580 Sherwood Park, Alberta.


1580 seems to be a popular frequency in the Edmonton area. In the 1970's [before it got an FM license] CJSR had a carrier current signal on 1580 at the U of A. Maybe 1200 or 1110 will return to the air
one day.

Good luck with the book Eldon!
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.
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Re: Best Daytimer DX Verified

Postby skyvalleyradio » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:33 am

Eldon - KOMW 680 and KOMW-FM 92.7 definitely have separate programming and I have never heard them simulcast while regularly travelling through that area. I have heard KOMW-AM as far west as Sunshine Valley on Hwy 3 just east of Hope.
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Re: Best Daytimer DX Verified

Postby jon » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:18 am

skyvalleyradio wrote:Eldon - KOMW 680 and KOMW-FM 92.7 definitely have separate programming and I have never heard them simulcast while regularly travelling through that area. I have heard KOMW-AM as far west as Sunshine Valley on Hwy 3 just east of Hope.

Everyone appears to be correct on this: KOMW-AM is separately programmed. A couple of years ago, I read an article on Omak and how bad things were there economically, then checked their web site and came to the conclusion they were simulcast with an FM. Guess that was either a temporary situtation, I misread it or just don't remember it correctly. Because they are certainly separately programmed now.

By the way, KOMW-FM is now KNCW. It is still co-owned with KOMW. North Cascades Broadcasting also owns KZBE-FM, which is also in Omak.

KOMW-AM was one of the few Washington stations that I was missing while DX'ing in the late 1960s. But I finally did hear them just before sunset signoff one evening in December.
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Re: Best Daytimer DX Verified

Postby Anotherwpgguy » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:02 pm

Eldon:

After thinking about events, I have to retract a my comment on the intial install of the FM TX ... that wasn't me. I had to move the FM from one spot in the room to another when the new Gates went into service replacing the old Continental (I think) that wouldn't come on or turn off in response to the remote control. We retained that and it necessitated installation of a huge open contact switch to change the antenna array over between the main and standby TX.

So the morning man would phone me, and I'd walk the couple of blocks to the station to grab the CKOT car or van, drive out to the site and bring it on-air manually ... just between you and I, ... that was fun. Throwing the plate switch on what I thought was a power level the equivalent of a generator at Niagara Falls was pretty gratifying, even though it was on ly a Kw. The relays would kick in and the plate transformer would give this low frequency "Dunnnnggggg" sound as power and modulation hit it and ring it like a bell.

At the end of the broadcast day, we would play the sign off announcement, and following Oh Canada, I would flip the plates off, and the audio feed from the modulation monitor would turn to static, and I was off for the night to carouse and chat up the wild and crazy Tillsonburg girls who ... (in my opinion) .... should have been amazed at my part in them being able to hear the signal of CKOT during daylight hours. Girls who could swing to the hits of Jack Jones, Patty Page, and the bubble music of Lawrence Welk were pretty wild. The Ray Connif Singers had 'em faintin' in the aisles .... LOL.

One other memory comes to mind ... cleaning out the record library (remember when radio stations had those places?) .... there were hundreds of old very large transcription disks that were taking up valuable space, so I was assigned the job of gathering up dozens at a time and throwing them away. There was a swinging bridge across a gully on the west side of town, and a few of us would go there and play Frisbee with the disks into the gully below .... a bit of a waste now, but at the time, those disks were considered junk. If I'd had a shotgun, they would have made neat skeet clays.

Another CKOT technical memory ... we used a Motorola VHF for various things and had mobiles in the station car and a small hand-held which we used for remotes to studio link to go on air from many places. Under the right weather inversion conditions, the signal from a cement and gravel operation in Erie, PA would come pounding across Lake Erie and be much stronger than our hand-held. In the middle of a drop-in, you'd hear the truck dispatcher giving an address for a delivery of several yards of concrete in Erie, Pennsylvania .... what fun.

I rather liked John Lamers Senior .... he was as frugal as the day was long, but actually he was a real caring guy who knew my grandparents, and sort felt obigated to look after me and keep me away from corrupting influences of live .... like beer. He heard that some beer bottles had been seen in the apartment several of CKOT types shared, and he called me into the office and offered to have me move into his place. Which in retrospect, was a pretty nice thing for him to have offered.

Last thing .... I was paid minimum wage, which in Ontario at the time was a dollar an hour. I was on salary rather than hourly ... because Mr Lamers explained .... "you are a manager" .... what a hoax.

It was quite a break for me though .... how many 17 year olds get that kind of opportunity ... especially when the biggest TX I had worked on was a 6L6 metal tubed crystal-controlled oscillator that changed freq a couple of Khz by rubbing soft pencil lead on the element.

Zeesh!

All the best Eldon!

AWG
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Re: Best Daytimer DX Verified

Postby VE7ROX » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:07 am

Yes, I remember hearing KOMW 680 while DXing by the railroad tracks in Mission, BC. This would have been mid-day at 1:00 PM. I have also heard KTBI 810 Ephrata, WA from selected locations in the Vancouver area. They are pretty much at the limit of ground-wave reception here in Vancouver. I seem to recall KAPY 1290 Port Angeles, WA being a day station. Will have to check my records and QSL's. One big plus of being in a western time zone was that 3:00 AM here was 6:00 AM sign-on time for stations in the eastern time zone, while the frequency was still clear at this end. For all the time zones east of here, there would be a 1, 2, 3 or 4 hour window of opportunity while stations in the Pacific time zone were still signed off. I remember listening to "Music For Pep-Cats" on KDFL 1560 Sumner, WA. Were they a daytime station? Can't recall hearing them on 1560 at night. Don't ask me what a Pep-Cat :cat2: is.
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Re: Best Daytimer DX Verified

Postby Anotherwpgguy » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:37 am

Hi OM:

Is it possible that could have been "Hep-Cats?"
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Re: Best Daytimer DX Verified

Postby skyvalleyradio » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:44 am

VE7ROX de VE7SKA - KAPY 1290 Port Angeles was indeed a daytimer until bought by Salem, owners of KKOL 1300. They promptly signed off KAPY in order to allow for a power increase for KKOL. Sumner's KDFL 1560 was definitely a daytimer. Now KZIZ, Bennett Broadcasting was just recently granted night operating authority for 1560. They are audible here in the Goofy Islands during daytime hrs, but have yet to hear them at night.
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Re: Best Daytimer DX Verified

Postby VE7ROX » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:06 pm

VE7SKA de VE7ROX. Most interesting Mike. Many thank you's for the update and clarification on those daytime stations from back then. Nice to know my memory served me correctly on both counts (KAPY and KDFL). :rockon:
I will ask Eldon about that recent activity for night-time operation on 1560. I am checking my records for daytime-only stations heard east of Washington, Oregon and California, especially in time zones to the east of here. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of daytime-only stations in Oregon. I know I have some in Idaho. Three time periods for daytime station reception, mid-day, sunrise, and sunset, can of course produce different results. Again, thanks for the updates. Keep ya posted.
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