Best Daytimer DX Verified

[jon]

I must congratulate those of you who have heard KOMW-AM in the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island during regular broadcast hours. Especially in their 1KW days -- they are 5KW now, still non-directional.

I worked at it for several years (in the late 1960s) to hear every AM station in Washington State at a time when new ones appeared to be signing on "every day". KOMW was one of the last, and required a 4' box loop antenna very carefully positioned in KNBR's Null, and a lot of patience until KOMW faded in near sunset signoff in December. KNBR was a real powerhouse, and you were right next door to CBU-690, so you pretty much had to try and null both stations at once.

As for 1000 watt daytimer KAPY-1290, they seemed very prosperous when I visited them in Port Angeles a few times (my aunt, uncle and cousin lived there) in mid- to late 1960s. Beautiful studios a fair way up the hill.

To add a bit of a twist to this discussion, can you name any other daytimer that signed off hours before sunset in the summer? Yes, KAPY signed off at 6pm no matter how late sunset was in the summer.

[Eldon-Mr.CFAY]

Greetings Everyone,
Again many, many thanks for all the info. on this topic. Really great seeing Jim VE7ROX posting on this topic, Great to see you motivated on Radio West Jim!!!!! By the way folks Jim was telling me that he did get KVIP 540 and KBIG 740 verified by QSL Card and letter for reception heard in North Burnaby way back in the 1970s. KVIP is in Redding and was a daytimer and KBIG is on Avalon (Santa Catalina Island I think) off the coast of Los Angeles. Its now KBRT still a Daytimer on 740. I have heard both stations a few times on sunrise skip but not very often. Never enough to send a report to get a QSL. KVIP 540 operates with low power at night. So does KWNC 1370 Quincy, Washington and 1330 Enumclaw-Auburn now which is called KGRG still 500 watts in the day but much lower all-night./ I think they operate at 41 watts or something like that at night. KGRG AM 1330 is currently owned by Green River Community College in Auburn, Washington. Their FM has been on-air for years and has a progressive format. The AM has a Retro. Alternative Rock/Music Format from the latest website I just looked at. Thats great hearing of your Daytime Reception Sky Valley Radio and also the useful info. about KOMW 680 Omak, many thanks, I figured they were separate from the FM but thought from what Jon had said perhaps some simulcasting might occur with the FM. Any time I have heard KOMW they were separate though. I got them verified Jon on a IRCA DX Test in the late 1970s. Made a mistake on the C.E.'s name, it was Jerry Robinson I believe not Robertson. Anyway he was an IRCA member for quite a few years as well back in the 1970s and 1980s. May still be for all I know. Anyway I have heard KOMW at sunset in Langley quite a few times or just before sunset while trying to listen to KBRD 680 Lacey/Olympia which is only 250 watts Daytime on the same frequency!!!! They have quite a format which is music from the 20s to 70s, a lot of rare big band, old very old novelty music etc. etc. KBRD also streams on the internet and I have airchecks of them since 2009 from my Grace Wi-Fi Radio Internet listening. Over the air with a good radio and loop antenna I can get KBRD Lacey with a Fair to marginal signal in Langley City.

As far as sign-offs for daytimers before actual sunset. In the summertime a few years ago I heard KWDB 1110 Oak Harbor sign-off near 6:30 PM several times during the weekdays even though sunset was later. However normally KWDB seemed to sign-off near sunset or just after it regardless of season. Good Question JON, how many AM Daytimers do Sign-off at 6 PM or so Local time despite the season or summer sunset time????? Anyone know of any others that do? From listening on my Grace Wi-Fi Radio to WPAQ 740 Mt. Airy, North Carolina's streaming audio they sign the on-air signal in what seems maybe an hour earlier in summer to local sunset in North Carolina but that is only during the summer months from what I have heard. WPAQ has not had streaming audio on after they sign-off the ON-Air Daytime signal. You just get an open hiss on the wi-fi radio till they sign-on the next morning over the air near sunset or 6 AM. Some Daytime Stations, in fact quite a few have a Pre-Sunrise Authority of about 500 watts to operate from 6 AM local time to local sunrise when they can boost to regular Daytime Only Power.

Very interesting info. about CKOT from anotherwinnipegguy. Great stuff, many thanks!!! From what you said it sounds like those Tillsonburg gals were really wild especially with that Lawrence Welk music!!!! I*m sure VE7ROX JIm would just have loved to be there with you especially since he has been so gung ho about building transmitters over the years!!!! By the way folks VE7ROX Jim worked for NW (CKNW 980) Engineering Department in the 1980s and had to even trim and mow the grass around the CKNW Tower site near Frys Corner in Surrey. He did quite a bit of technical work both at the McBride Plaza studios in New West. and some work at the transmitter site as well. I*m mentioning this because Jim is a bit shy at promoting some of his experiences in radio!!!!! I really found that interesting about CKOT though and especially the technical info., no doubt when you are younger like that you really feel great about being in the technical dept. as an engineer at a radio station and no doubt feel the local population should really appreciate you efforts!!! I can totally understand that, especially relating to the female listeners locally!!!! Thanks very much for letting us all know about that anotherwpg.guy. One question I have, did you every meet Robert Lamers???? I think he was either a son or brother to Robert Lamers Senior, when he wrote to me about my letter to CKOT for a job in 1968 or 1969 I think he was in the technical dept. as an engineer at CKOT. Remember that was back in 1968 or 1969 so perhaps it was before you worked there???? I liked the transmitter photo you posted earlier about CKOT as well. Yes when I have made trips to Toronto and Cobourg, Ontario I have heard CKOT 1510 from Coboug-Baltimore (Baltimore is 4 miles Northeast of Cobourg). It was on the C.Crane Radio and GE Superadio Two. With the portable Ferrite loop antenna or Select-a-tennas loops I have back there it boost the CKOT signal to a low average level but listenable. Without the loop antennas you can listen to them but more hiss level and static (especially in Ontario summers) with a fair signal maybe S2 or S3 with S10 being the strongest S-Meter Reading on a communications radio. Thats from Cobourg and Baltimore, Ontario. In Toronto they are weaker but you can hear them in the daytime unless noise or static levels are high. I think my friend Mike Brooker who is an AM dXer in Toronto has them verified as well. I have known Mike a long time and he is an avid AM dxer with lots of QSL Cards and letters from stations. I*ll have to ask him about his best Daytime dx as well. I don't think Mike is a radio west member although I have told him about Radio West. Dan Sys also knows him.

Here are some stats on daytime stations in the USA with no night operation power. West of the Mississippi River States including Louisiana, Arkansas, Missouri and Minnesota there are about 200 Daytime only stations currently operating with no night power. East of the Mississippi River in the USA there are about 800 Daytime AM stations operating. So obviously you can see that there is a lot more Daytime Only Activity in the Eastern United States particularly North Carolina, Indiana, Ohio, Tennessee, Kentucky and Georgia. Oh yes Alabama has a lot of daytime stations too. As far as the Western USA there are only 5 left in Washington State, 1 in Oregon, about 13 in California, 2 in Idaho, 2 in Wyoming , 3 in Utah, 3 in North Dakota and 1 in South Dakota. Alaska and Hawaii have no daytime only AM stations currently. In the Western USA Texas, Louisiana, Iowa and Minnesota have the most per state. Arkansas and Missouri have quite a few too. Louisiana has about 24 Day. Only stations and Texas has about 50 of them. One station that has a unique format is KTHH 990 Albany, Oregon, they are all-comedy, used to be country and progressive talk. They are owned by group owner Bi-Coastal Media and are only 250 Watts Daytime but have a big whopping 9 watts all-night. Yes they used to be a daytimer as KRKT 990 called Country Crickett but got the night power around 1987 from the FCC. The Comedy format they have as Comedy 990 went into effect in the last couple years. Its a commercial station which has been on-air for years. This is not a daytimer anymore but close I have never heard them here but sure would like to at sunrise. Quite a challenge but 990 at sunrise is listenable in Langley by nulling CKNW 980 slopover with the loop antenna. Has anyone heard 990 AM Albany, Oregon up here as KRKT or KTHH more recently????? Jon did you ever hear them back in the 60s or 70s in Burnaby???? I have not over the years.

Anyway better post this. Take Care Everyone.....73s Eldon

[jon]

Has anyone heard 990 AM Albany, Oregon up here as KRKT or KTHH more recently????? Jon did you ever hear them back in the 60s or 70s in Burnaby???? I have not over the years.

No verification in my collection, and I don't remember them, so seriously doubt I ever heard them.

Hearing 50,000 watt CBW-990 Winnipeg on a good night versus hearing a 250 watter from Albany, Oregon, in the daytime, is something else again, only 10KHz away with CKNW's directional 50,000 watts pointed at me in East and South Burnaby from Cloverdale. Similarly, I'm not sure I ever heard 5000 watt KOIN-970 in Portland in the daytime, i.e. - via groundwave, as opposed to skywave at night.

[jon]

There were, of course, a lot more daytimers "back in the day". Interesting how it has played out for some of the former daytimers, who are still on the same frequency with low power at night.

The legendary KBLE-1050 is Seattle especially caught my eye. Always been a great little cash cow as a straight daytimer, with its 100% paid religious programming format.

Non-directional 24/7. 5000 watts day and 440 watts at night.

What is interesting is how it has played out for them at night. In the day, they are protected right to the Canadian border from interference, meaning that CKST-1040 cannot sent any power to the South on their day pattern.

But, at night, the only reason they get any protection at all from CKST is because CKST runs a simple pattern with a 100% null towards WHO-1040 in Des Moines, the original 1-A Clear Channel "owner".

In fact, at night, the tables are essentially turned against KBLE. They only were allocated 440 watts so they won't interfere with CKST anywhere in CKST's Canadian coverage area.

Once again, a reminder of how radio regulations work, especially international treaties: strictly a "first come, first served" approach which leaves existing stations "untouched" by any stations that were assigned to the frequency later than they were. Or is supposed to (e.g. - CKWX and the station in Oregon). Of course, things get really confusing when an older station gets a power increase, because it is essentially two stations, as far as its rights go. The old power is protected from when it first came on the air. But the new power is like a second station that only came on the air on the power increase date. KBLE is, of course, the perfect example of this. Its day coverage is protected from its original sign on date. But its night coverage is just as if a new station came on the air on the date it was approved for night operation.

[dial twister]

Anyway better post this. Take Care Everyone.....73s Eldon

I think Eldon has just posted his book online for free. This can't be good for future sales.

[skyvalleyradio]

jon - KFKF 1540 Bellevue used to sign off at 7pm regardless of actual sunset time. Being just north of KDWB 1110, yes I've heard them sign off at 6:30 when sunset occurred much later. I have also heard KDWB operating long past sunset on a few occasions (NOT under their current ownership...so far)

[Eldon-Mr.CFAY]

Greetings Everyone,
Trust me Dial Twister there is a ton more information in the book on Daytime only stations than mentioned here!!!!!! Thanks Sky Valley and Jon for additional information. Yes east of CKNW's transmitter site 990 is easier to hear stations on in Langley than when I grew up in North Surrey which was a worse problem for dxing 990 and 970. However I did manage to log and verify by letter KOIN 970 Portland. It was a night report and somewhat tricky getting reception at times with lots of NW slopover from 980 but I did it. I still keep all my old handwritten or typed reception reports on station loggings going back to my early days of dxing in the late 1960s and early 1970s!!!!!

Thanks RadioFan for the earlier posting about KTBI and the other comments!!!! One Daytime Station RadioFan and I toured way back in the early 1970s was KURB 1510 Mountlake Terrace, Washington just north of Seatte. It was a 250 watt daytimer and I could get it with a marginal signal in North Surrey and other parts of Greater Vancouver using a good radio and Box loop antenna at the time. We met Dick Ellingson the Program Director at the station which was on a hillside with the antenna and transmitter in the back. I sent him reception reports of hearing KURB in Greater Vancouver and he sent me a reel to reel tape verification confirming my reception complete with that great Golden Oldies Jingle that KURB used. I still have the reel tape verification and it is the only station to ever send me one. All the other ones are letters or QSL Cards.

Regarding 990 it is fairly clear in the Langley area so maybe I can still get KTHH at sunrsie skip. I have heard CBW out here several times and even in North Surrey but that was much harder with CKNW to the east and as Jon said beaming our way!!!!From Langley it is easy to null CBW because they are to the east and Albany, Oregon is due south. When we lived in Mission from fall of 1993 to 1995 the AM and FM Dx reception was the best in the Fraser Valley Daytime especially but night was great too. We lived on Rose Ave East up near Cade Bar and that is between 7th Ave and 14th Sreet up the hill from downtown Mission. Its not far from Centennial Park. Anyway that is one of the best places in the entire fraser valley for long distance Am radio reception. Langley, Chilliwack and Abbotsford don't come close although there are a couple of Langley Township locations that are good. Anyway KOMW 680 was heard on that hillside QTH fairly often throughout the year at Mid-Day 12 NOON. with a fair signal. Also heard KTBI 810 Ephrata daytime on a regular basis mid-day. There was a Part 15 100 Milliwatt Real Estate Transmitter on 1610 over a mile away from our Mission house. With a good radio and the loop you could even hear that one to a listenable level. The modulation was awful and they did not really get out very well on a normal radio. On FM I could listen to KSVR 90.l Mount Vernon (10 watts ) and Centrailia FM 102.9 daily plus a few Portland FM stations. Our elevation on that Mission hillside was only about 500 feet above sea level but it really was good for FM and Am. I suspect there must have been some magnetic rock material in the hillside that made reception so good with a very quiet noise level most of the time! It was a newer residential area with wall-to-wall single detached homes all the way up to 14th Ave... If you get a chance check out Centennial Park in uphill Miission for dx, I*m sure the conditions are still good. Jim and I did some dxing there a couple years ago and it was pretty good at night. East of Mission near Dewdney off Highway 7 you could hear KOMW fairly well in the afternoon too. Jim was quite amazed at that.

By the way Sky Valley I know you worked at KYAC 1460 in the 1970s from the Seattle area. Wasn't KYAC 1460 Kirkland a daytimer too????? Later becoming fulltime. I got them verified by letter by Chief Engineer Ron Putnam back in the 70s. Dan Sys and I toured KYAC way back around 1971 and got a friendly tour there. Those were the days when border crossing by Greyhound was a breeze most of the time. I have some old KYAC surveys in my collection from back then too.

KAPY 1290 was a great local station from Port Angeles, never visited them but it sounds like they were doing quite well back then. I have some over-the-air cassette airchecks of KAPY from the 1980s and 1990s, one of them was from the local Fair broadcast.

Well better post this. Big day tomorrow, Mrs. CFAY (Ann) is taking me out to dinner. Will be heading to Ontario later this month and hopefully get photos of CKOT after wanting to see that station for 40 years or so. Take care everyone!!!!
73s, Eldon

[Dan Sys]

Eldon.....I logged KTHH 990 back on February 3, 2011 at 7:30AM (from Maple Ridge). I also have KRKT 990 logged on November 8,1978 at 4:35 PM from Vancouver.

Yes, it also blows me away how clean 970 and 990 are in the evenings out here in Aldergrove. Not only that but CHMB 1320 and CJVB 1470 are pretty well drowned out by U.S. signals after sunset. Some nights KSTE 650 in Rancho Cordova (Sacramento) buries CISL 650. Amazing how a few miles can make such a difference.

[radiofan]

As a birthday present for you Eldon, the Management and Staff of RadioWest.ca have saved you the time and expense of a Greyhound ride to 77 Broadway in Tillsonburg, ON ...

[Anotherwpgguy]

They have moved the front door of the operation, it used to be on the street on the left side of that shot. In Google Earth, put in 13 Baldwin Street, Tillsonburg, then go to street view and you'll see the gray building .... they have expanded to take over the store beside them now I guess. You can see the STL, FM monitoring antennas on the roof.

I can almost hear the voice of band leader Laurence Welk now .... "ah one, and, a two, and uh ..." the bubble machine would start on cue, and the wonderful strains of the accordian of Myron Floren would flow from the monitor .... http://youtu.be/IqURmXMEGFI

Drove the females of Tillsonburg wild in the streets I tell ya. It was my first experience of coming out of the radio station to be met by a bevy of women as if I were Elvis exiting the stage door of Carnegie Hall. It was that apprenticeship at CKOT which prepared me for the various techniques required to get to work in the thread I started regarding "The CFUN Lifestyle" a few months ago. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11099&hilit=cfun+lifestyle

The Beer Barrel Polka was a timeless favourite on the playlist, and as you'll observe in this video, they really knew how to kick up their heels. http://youtu.be/-mD-JeYjozc ... you've never enjoyed The Chicken Dance as much ... LOL ... Eldon, I know a "Hep Cat" like yourself would be an expert Chicken Dancer, but some of the readers may not be familiar, so I'll include this tutorial for their edification .... http://youtu.be/6UV3kRV46Zs

Eldon, during the summer of '67 when I was there the family relationship was .... John Lamers Sr was the owner, President and GM ... the father of John Lamers Jr, who was Sales Mgr, later to become GM .... Bob Lamers was a technical guy when I knew him and he had just returned from going away to school and took over the engineering function from me when I made the big move to Blind River for 6 weeks in early winter, then was moved up the chain to CKCY in Sault Ste Marie for a combination of on-air and engineering.

AWG

[skyvalleyradio]

Mr CFAY sez:


By the way Sky Valley I know you worked at KYAC 1460 in the 1970s from the Seattle area. Wasn't KYAC 1460 Kirkland a daytimer too????? Later becoming fulltime. I got them verified by letter by Chief Engineer Ron Putnam back in the 70s. Dan Sys and I toured KYAC way back around 1971 and got a friendly tour there. Those were the days when border crossing by Greyhound was a breeze most of the time. I have some old KYAC surveys in my collection from back then too.

I worked there between 1974 and 1976 and yes KYAC was a daytimer with 6am pre-sunrise authority. Poor Ron!!! He really had his hands full. One of the reason' I was hired was my credentials/qualifications to handle FCC chores and logs regarding the TX. KYAC had gotten caught a few times running past sunset and the engineer at KIMA 1460 had complained to the FCC resulting in some hefty fines. So, I got one of the jazz airshifts on KYAC-FM (Bob Summerise was the other jazz DJ on FM) that had "floating" start/end times so that I was available to ensure the AM signed off and had proper FCC readings/logging done. Owner Carl Haymond bought KTW 1250's license and facilities so that KYAC could operate full-time and sold the 1460 Kirkland plant. By that time, somehow, KTW had managed to get full time operating authority in spite of KWSC Pullman's objections, and KYAC 1250 went to 24 hr operation.

[jon]

It would be interesting to know how the 1250 Seattle-Pullman situation was resolved. It had been a real hold out from the early days of Radio. Back in the days when Frequency Sharing was the Norm, not the exception.

Until KYAC-1250 Seattle got full-time night operation, both Seattle and Pullman were 5KW non-directional sticks that were each on in the day, but shared night hours. At sunset, Seattle signed off. At 10 or 11 pm, Pullman signed off and Seattle signed on.

I see that Seattle is now directional at night with a complete Null in the direction of Pullman (on the Idaho border). Hard to say, but Seattle may have given up its rights to broadcast non-directional late at night, in exchange for this. And Pullman may have the right to run non-directional 24/7. Or so it would appear from the FCC directional patterns.

[skyvalleyradio]

jon - this was resolved when Seattle's FIrst Presbyterian Church still owned 1250 (KTW-AM) My guess is that they sorted this out in anticipation of selling the 1250 facility. The null towards Pullman was part of the night-time array pattern when KYAC acquired 1250

[jon]

Anyone remember KTW-1250 Seattle as a nice little Top 40 operation circa 1964? I don't remember this part of the deal, but I was told recently that the DJs were always named Tom, Dick and Harry.

One of those periods I'd just love to see an aircheck show up for.

Hadn't realized they were owned by a church. Which would explain why I was questioned about my religious affiliations when I had a tour of the station around 1969.

[skyvalleyradio]

I remember KTW 1250 as a Top-40. I had just acquired my beloved Stromberg-Carlson HF receiver and had a newly strung long-wire from my upstairs Kerrisdale bedroom out to the clothesline pole at the back alley. KTW just smoked the receiver! All of the DJs were Tom, Dick, Harry and I thin when replacement jocks were hired to replace previous air talent, they too had to adopt one of the 'generic' names. First Presbyterian Church of Seattle was the sole owner of KTW and KTW-FM 102.5. The FM was sold in the early 70's before the AM, and became rocker KZOK.