Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Postby jon » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:14 pm

Enough talk about airports in this thread, including the following, to warrant a thread of its own:
hagopian wrote:Landing at the old HK Airport was one of the coolest, if not nerviest flying experience I ever had.

A few flights in Mexico, and landing at the old Molokai airport would be right up there, though.

Molokai, and other out islands used to be served by the very competent Royal Hawaiian Air Service - and Molokai's old strip, on the west side of the island, ended in a cliff.

Boy, those pilots were something else.

*sorry for straying there for a sec.

This could actually be a radio-related story as I got my first fear of scary runways while at CFPR Prince Rupert. I was there during the relatively short period during airline history when the routing to Prince Rupert include a stop at Sandspit on the (then known as) Queen Charlotte Islands. That was a positively wonderful experience, no matter what the weather. What was scary was the normal routing, which included a stop in Terrace.

Terrace, I was told at the time, has the runway from hell: three sides are mountain and the fourth is cliff. Never a wind inside that box canyon, so airplanes always landed from, and took off into, the cliff entrance/exit and hoped they could stop before they hit the mountain on landing, or fell off the cliff on takeoff.

Personally, the scariest landing I ever encountered was right here in Edmonton. Thankfully, I was already familiar with the fact that, when landing "downtown", one of the approaches required flying between skyscrapers low enough that the top floors were well above the top of the airplane. On this occasion, it was a scheduled Pacific Western Airlines flight from Calgary, in heavy fog, that was supposed to be diverted to the International Airport at Leduc. But the pilot insisted on landing downtown as there had been reports of the fog opening up around 50 feet off the ground. He told everyone that his plan was to pull up at the 50 foot level if he could not see the runway.

Even for the two amateur pilots seated around me, who had never been on the approach through the skyscrapers, the landing was not as scary as seeing the fog-shrouded skyscrapers appear and disappear ABOVE us as the plane, a Boeing 737, made the final approach to the airport amidst hard bumping turbulence.

Thankfully, the downtown airport was closed to all but the smallest planes running commercial flights 15 years ago, as the runways are just long enough to safely handle a 737. The airport will be closed for good in the next few years and converted into a state of the art housing development, complete with a canal and canal boats.
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Re: Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Postby Mike Cleaver » Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:27 pm

In Canada, the old Cranbrook airport used to be the scariest, at least in my experience.
The pilot had to stand the plane on its wing to go between a couple of mountain peaks then flatten out to land on what seemed to be a too short strip.
If the weather was less than ideal, it sometimes took three approaches to get it right.
I made that jump many times while working in Lethbridge in the late '60s and flying home to Kelowna to visit my family.
As far as scary landings internationally go, the most frightening is landing on St. Barths in the Caribbean.
The largest planes to use the strip are only 12 passenger.
The pilot has to come over a hill and drop sharply to a strip that, if you over run it, you will end up in the ocean.
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Re: Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Postby Howaboutthat » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:45 pm

jon wrote:Terrace, I was told at the time, has the runway from hell: three sides are mountain and the fourth is cliff.


Don't believe everything you're told. The 'cliff' was a gentle slope to the parking lot. The 'mountains' were miles away. The biggest problem at that airport, being on a plateau, was fog. It was one of those airports where PWA really did mean Please Wait Awhile.
Houston, We're dealing with morons!.
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Re: Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Postby freqfreak2 » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:13 pm

Howaboutthat wrote:It was one of those airports where PWA really did mean Please Wait Awhile.


Or ...

Pray While Aloft
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Re: Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Postby Mike Cleaver » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:53 pm

Also known as "Peter's Wonderful Airline."
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Re: Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Postby pave » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:03 am

For years, we were producing the Sportchek TV ads up in Edmonchuk and would have to fly "Piggly Wiggly" from Calgary - come hell or high water in order to keep under budget.

Of course, this was a flight into the Municipal (downtown) airport and after a few bowel-grinding landings and takeoffs in the old, coal-burning 737's, my producer/director started calling PWA "Puke While Aloft". :flames:
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Re: Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Postby jon » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:55 am

Moving to Edmonton from Yellowknife at the beginning of 1975, the Oil Boom had just got into full swing. Edmonton was either the home or the relaxation spot for the huge numbers of oil workers working on lonely oil rigs or on heavy oil development in Fort McMurray. The term "bump and grind" was used to describe the type of entertainment the all male work force gravitated to.

It quickly became common to use the same term describe a particularly rough ride on PWA, which had gone to all 737 aircraft by mid-1975.

Personally, I actually felt more comfortable on 737s than any other aircraft in nasty weather. As I understood it, at the time, they had the best power to weight ratio of any commercial airplane in use. I liked to think that, if the pilot got in trouble, he could almost "put it on its tail" and fly straight up.
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Re: Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Postby pave » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:41 am

Yes, indeed, jon, and our on-board aviation expert, AWG, would likely agree on the value of the 737-series. The commercial aircraft with which I am most comfortable though is the DASH-8 - low & slow 'til it's time to go.

Meanwhile, I do recall how the 737 stickmen would use most of the 7000 feet of the Calgary runways before deciding to point it upwards. I also recall muttering under my breath after interminable take-off runs... "Today?!"

There is a story of a 737-driver flying empty and leaving Calgary. After the shortest of take-off rolls, he yanked that thing off the tarmac and pointed it almost vertical. Everybody who was monitoring ground control on their radio heard an unknown observer quip, "Nice Punt!" :cheers:
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Re: Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Postby Anotherwpgguy » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:31 pm

The 737-100 and 200 versions that "Pee Dub" operated were underpowered compared to the later versions with newer engines that relied more on the air moved by the fan stage of the engine rather than exclusively relying on the jet eflux. WestJest operate the newer versions, and are following the PWA economic planning model.

That's why Pave would have felt the effects of being underpowered while taking off from the high field elevation of Calgary, especially on hot days at max takeoff weight of approximately 115,000 pounds. The combination of field elevation 3,500 feet above sea level, an altimeter setting of 29.92 " hg, and a temperature of lets say 25 degrees C would yield the same effect as taking off from an airport at 5,500 feet above sea level .... run the temp up to 35 C, and the airplane "thinks" its taking off at 6,500 feet above sea level .... what all that boils down to is .... "crappy performance" due to density altitude.

"Pee Dub" was an excellent econmic model, and led the way in proper equipment selection of a single-type fleet to reduce parts inventory, staff training costs, simulator training programs, etc. I was fortunate enough to have done a lot of 737 simulator time with some of the senior PWA pilots in Vancouver, and they were all "good sticks" and real personalities.

Unfortunately two accidents damaged PWA's reputation, a 737 left the runway in Kelowna without injuries, and the famous snow plow on the runway at Cranbrook problem that killed all of the crew and 38 of the 44 passengers on board.

They had a staff with good morale, and were an all too rare thing in Canadian aviation .... profitable. They went a step too far however, and bought out CP Air, formed Canadian Airlines International, and was never able to turn a profitable quarterly report from day one until they were absorbed by Air Canada. Too bad, because some great people were involved, and very dedicated. Some blame the predatory pricing, and government protection of Air Canada for the failure of CAI, and no doubt about it, Air Canada's price slashing well below operational costs on routes flown beside CAI was one of their most famous business models.

Anyway .... I digress.

I'm not sure if I have a "most scary runway" out of the hundreds I've operated from, but the most enjoyable and challenging would have been my several years of flying in the Yukon based in Whitehorse, serving small "Ma & Pa" gold mining operations with exceptionally crude facilities ... runways 1200 feet long bulldozed out of the side of a mountain among the trees, with a dogleg in them that had a cliff on one end and an upslope of maybe 10 degrees .... "one way in, one way out" places that would have you raising the nose in the last hundred feet of the runway with the stall horn blaring, then over the edge of the cliff in a nose down attitude into the valley to obtain flying speed. Those were neat times. I'm glad I did when I was about 26 though .... I'd probaby not have the nerves for sustained flight operations like that anymore.

Another fun thing about flying from Whitehorse was working Saturday night on-air at CKRW ... they let me run wild, and it was a treat to go back to the days of walking into a radio station with a stack of LPs and 45's and play whatever I felt like, with whatever frequency I wanted. Now after a long time of very tight formatics, that was fun.

By the time I started flying twin-engine aircraft on instrument approaches into places like Cranbrook, Kelowna, Yellowknife, etc, it was all very ho-hum because the approaches are designed to some pretty tame criteria for climbs and descents and routings.

Anyway ... thanks for the opprtunity to muse for a few moments.

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Re: Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Postby pave » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:52 pm

What a great read! That's what makes forum-participation a treat. (I wonder if that could have been read over a double-looped intro to Shaft while kissing the post...?) ;-)
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Re: Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Postby Anotherwpgguy » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:07 pm

I'm thinking you've got a good idea with the voice-over, but your thought patternn requires a little clean-up ... instead of Theme From Shaft, something with more punch .... from my days at CKGM .... "The Amboy Dukes - Journey To The Center of Your Mind."

http://youtu.be/UN2VNFpiGWo

Its got an excellent start, and a cookin' beat. Ted Nugent was wailing on the axe, and its 47 second intro with numerous hit points allowed the reading of a chapter of War & Peace to vocal.

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Re: Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Postby pave » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:18 pm

Sure. That would work. My second choice would have been "Papa Was A Rolling Stone" with the vocal at 1:56.

Meanwhile, readers are encouraged to go a few posts up and enjoy AWG's major treatment.
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Re: Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Postby jon » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:02 pm

Anotherwpgguy wrote:They went a step too far however, and bought out CP Air, formed Canadian Airlines International, and was never able to turn a profitable quarterly report from day one until they were absorbed by Air Canada. Too bad, because some great people were involved, and very dedicated. Some blame the predatory pricing, and government protection of Air Canada for the failure of CAI, and no doubt about it, Air Canada's price slashing well below operational costs on routes flown beside CAI was one of their most famous business models.

And lets not forget Ward Air's transition to a national airline as yet another competitor in an already overcrowded market.
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Re: Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Postby Anotherwpgguy » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:47 am

Folding Wardair into the radio thread, when I was at CFUN, and looking through some old stuff in the basement, I found a nice travel agency style Boeing 727 model in Wardair markings that had been used as a part of a trip give-away promotion.

So, I of course grabbed it, whipped upstairs and asked Ron Carabine if I could have it, and it is still on a shelf at my place.

A further tie-in ... the registration marks on the 727 was CF-FUN

Here's what she looked like .. http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.s ... rch=CF-FUN
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Re: Scary Airport Approaches and Landings

Postby hagopian » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:53 pm

The scariest of all didn't happen to me - but I saw it. Oaxaca, 1988.

Take bus from Acapulco to Puerto Escondido, through Puerto Angel, all the way up the snaky road to gorgeous Oaxaca to meet and escort friends to the boat I had ready for them in Acapulco. (God, that was some C+C).

(*Heh, this was how you had to cobble things together in that crazy and sad country)....

The DC-3 Lands, er, bumps in, 45 minutes late.

Door opens, people start coming off, just about all clear and BANG, the left wing fell off.

We all ran like scared rabbits.

I actually flew in DC-3's after that - and landed in some amazing strips in Chiapas.

My winger from Winnipeg would have lots more stories....he is an incredible pilot and instructor.
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