Station Vs. Station

[doodles]

Hello there. Brand new to the board. A topic I was curious about was something that I have been dealing with a lot lately. A client buys adds with two competing stations in one market. They then have each station produce the same spot and choose the one they like best. As a jock/producer I find it frusterating that I have to spend lots of time trying to create the best commercial I possibly can and then some times they end up picking the "other guys" over ours. A guy I work with told me in a previous market when this used to happen they would just automatically tell the client to produce it with the other station, we still get the add money and they do the work. Thoughts feelings? How much effort should you put into an add if the "other guy" is doing it too, but then again, you want to put your best product forward don't you? Interested to hear what you have to say!

[cart_machine]

How much effort should you put into an add if the "other guy" is doing it too, but then again, you want to put your best product forward don't you?

Is it a wise thing to let the quality of your own work be dictated by someone else? I don't think so. Do the best job you can with the resources you've got. It's a shame you may put together something that isn't used, but that's the business.

cArtie.
ex Production Manager

[Cliff Bashly Kinkade]

First Doodles, you can't win them all. And where commercial production is concerned there is little appreciation for quality by some clients. My advice would be to focus most of your efforst on those clients that did your style and ideas, and write the others off as the drudge between fun times.

If your work is good, and if it garners attention then some, not all, will come to your shop. But, let me ask this; what does your station do to make it worth your while to gain creative control? Or are you looking to build a great tape?

[doodles]

first off thank you both for your replies! It got me very excited to be a member of this board! I appreciate your opinions a lot. The thing with me Is I am a full time jock with a two hour prod shift per 8 hour day. I am mostly looking to build my on air talents and just keep working on my skills. I do however really enjoy prod and was just sort of...I guess the word is dis-heartened that people seemed to think if the "other guy" is doing the add too then why bother working hard on our version. I think I still believe that that is just how it goes and that I should always be doing the best job I can on it. Thanks for your opinions!

[Cliff Bashly Kinkade]

Okay so you're new and excited - GOOD. However by the sounds of it your station operates with limited resources, so I think that those with experience are acting correctly and fighting the battles worth fighting.

That said, don't give up. If you have an idea or an angle, pitch!

[doodles]

6 years in the business, but I'm a young gal, so I always appreciate advice and opinions from those with more experiance. Thanks again!

[jon]

Even though most of my advertising experience is outside Radio, I have to ask the question: "Who writes the ads?"

I'm presuming from your comments that you are being asked to produce ads that have already been written. That being the case, here is one "wild and crazy" idea. For any ad that you know for sure that another station has been asked to produce the same ad: rewrite it, then produce it.

Assuming either you or someone else at your station is a good ad writer, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I say this from one interesting piece of personal experience. Nearly 5 years ago, I applied for three Creative Writer positions here in Edmonton, two that were advertised, and one as a "cold call".

The only one that got a response was where I listened to the station for half an hour, and recorded everything. I picked a local spot that I was sure they had written and produced themselves, and rewrote it (I may have done a mock production, too, I forget). In fact, I turned it into a series that could be rotated to avoid boredom. The body of the ad was the same, but the intro "joke" was different for 5 different versions.

I didn't get that job as it was already filled by the time I had applied, but I was promised a position if one came available in the next 3 months. It didn't and I had another job soon after.

[doodles]

very interesting idea! The only problem I am dealing with is that I have no say in the writing. I'm just a dj/producer so the copy comes to me from the copy department and then I'm asked to do it as is. It was actually someone in the writing department that told me they usually don't go all out because "they're gonna pick the other guys anyways." I didn't even think of suggesting we put our own little spin on it and try and make it even better through the writing not just the prod. Not sure how the writers will respond to that but deffinetly worth a try in the future (see it all depends on them because we producers get our chops busted if we change so much as one word.) Thank you for the suggestion!

[3XHappy]

It's really sad that your efforts are ruined by an uninspired copy writer. After 6 years practice some leading skills take control and try to breath some life into the person or accept the fate and do your best with what they give you (not recommended) or take your 6 years experience and get a better gig with better people and maybe, just maybe, better pay. Do anything just don't sit back and let the other station win all the time. It's not good for moral, just ask the copy writer.

[Cliff Bashly Kinkade]

It was actually someone in the writing department that told me they usually don't go all out because "they're gonna pick the other guys anyways."

Sadly the truth of the matter is that, like your coworker, most copywriters in radio stations are underpaid, undertalented, and not surprisingly underwhelming.

Not sure of the market you're in, but why not look for some freelance, even pro-bono work. Do some great stuff and get noticed. This might not change your station, in fact it will likely lead to resentment and bitterness, but at least you'll be one step closer to a position where you might be rewarded.

[pave]

I's say, "Go ahead and produce the sucker anyway as it may come in handy one day - so long as you file it."

Clients come and go, but concepts... are forever.

Further, if you write it - even on station time - and it doesn't get aired... you own the copyright.

[Cliff Bashly Kinkade]

Clients come and go, but concepts... are forever.

Yes you've made that perfectly clear Pave. LOL

[pave]

Yeh,... I s'pose so.

Meanwhile, a pal of mine went through that whole "copyright" scenario with Rogers a few years back. They claimed he was not entitled to his copyright because he was on "station time".

They lost in court and he got his files, but only the ones that did not go to air.

I've also been through it - and won. It wasn't a dragged-out affair either. It was instant.

[XFM]

What could possibly be wrong with a "dragged out affair?"

I was plagiarized once. A friend of mine brought me a corporate magazine and said "hey, Xfm, this reads just like your work."

I took a look and said, "that's because it is."

I called the editor who blew me off with "well, yeah, the guy's a summer student, and he didn't know any better." This was before Jayson Blair.

I called her a bunch more times, and she continued to ignore me, so I wrote to the CEO. She called me the next day and gave me shit for "going above her head."

Later that day I got a cheque for $300.00 (more than generous) and a release letter from their team of expensive lawyers.

Not particularly relevant, but like an old soldier, I relish reliving my battles.

(That being said, there isn't much respect given to ownership of the written word. People who would recoil at stealing a car think nothing of "lifting a few paragraphs." There's even a listing on Craiglist for "Academic Freelance Writers.")

[Cliff Bashly Kinkade]

So why would you expect there to be respect for lifting a few words when there is little or no respect for sharing music or other electronic media?

That said the copying thing is a bit contentious. I've had people show me articles that are very similar to mine... but because they were very service focused, I have to blow it off because admittedly there are only so many ways to describe how to lift a box for example.