AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

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Re: AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

Postby Jim Walters » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:14 pm

From the video I saw yesterday, it appears the early part of the fire was at the AM 730 site.

Aren't transmitter sites usually maintained and kept clear of debris and growth that that could potentially be fuel if a fire were to occur?

The CKNW site on 176th in Cloverdale/surrey used to be maintained regularly but in recent years it looks like Dogpatch, the grounds look like hell and are totally overgrown. It's an eyesore.

Like they say, no fuel on the ground leaves nothing to burn.

Is it possible there was some sort of an electrical malfunction that might have started this fire?

I'm wondering if Corus actually owns the land or if it's leased from Delta or the conservation society? If that is the case, could they deny a rebuild and return the site to it's natural state?
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Re: AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

Postby xwdcatvb » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:03 pm

radiofan wrote:A few thoughts about AM 730's return to the air ...

The first is to get it on 101.1 HD-3 immediately.

How quickly could the CKNW auxilary transmitter at the TD Tower downtown Vancouver be converted to 730? Not a huge signal, but it would cover more area than CKPM and Roundhouse combined.


Ah, so this is where this myth of an "auxiliary" NW tx on the Black Tower mentioned in a DX discussion group possibly started.

Please explain how a station with a licence to serve New Westminster, and whatever Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada have designated to transmit from 176th St and 88th Ave in NE Surrey, can suddenly be legally able to zap airwaves from atop 700 West Georgia?
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Re: AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

Postby radiofan » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:45 pm

xwdcatvb wrote:
radiofan wrote:A few thoughts about AM 730's return to the air ...

The first is to get it on 101.1 HD-3 immediately.

How quickly could the CKNW auxilary transmitter at the TD Tower downtown Vancouver be converted to 730? Not a huge signal, but it would cover more area than CKPM and Roundhouse combined.


Ah, so this is where this myth of an "auxiliary" NW tx on the Black Tower mentioned in a DX discussion group possibly started.

Please explain how a station with a licence to serve New Westminster, and whatever Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada have designated to transmit from 176th St and 88th Ave in NE Surrey, can suddenly be legally able to zap airwaves from atop 700 West Georgia?


It's been there since they moved to The Black Tower in January 1996 and I'm sure it was approved by IC. Maybe Rob Brown or someone more knowledgeable can add more.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.
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Re: AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

Postby Mike Cleaver » Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:42 am

IIRC, the CKNW transmitter on top of the TD Tower is an approved alternate site if the station cannot operate the main site for any reason.
It has a rubber duck antenna on top of the building, the same one CKWX has atop their building which also has an alternate transmitter there.
I recall that both are rated at only 500 watts but may be limited to 250 watts output.
That won't give much coverage for either station, especially with today's problems with AM interference.
Dave Glasstetter could give the official word on this or the current CE Rob Brown.
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Re: AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

Postby xwdcatvb » Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:33 pm

Mike Cleaver wrote:IIRC, the CKNW transmitter on top of the TD Tower is an approved alternate site if the station cannot operate the main site for any reason.
It has a rubber duck antenna on top of the building, the same one CKWX has atop their building which also has an alternate transmitter there.
I recall that both are rated at only 500 watts but may be limited to 250 watts output.
That won't give much coverage for either station, especially with today's problems with AM interference.
Dave Glasstetter could give the official word on this or the current CE Rob Brown.


Hmmm, really. Or a reference within the actual licence to op? I mean, a broadcasting entity simply can't have facilities to go MoJo separate from their approved location without some rubber stamp... and I can't see anything in 'NW's paperwork that mentions that possibility, regardless of how low-powered the plant might be. Please feel welcome to inform me, and the rest of us.

Mebbe Civil Emergency comes into play, but still, there'd be an OK?

Auxiliary in my experience wuz a secondary/backup tx at the primary site powered by an alternative energy source (quite time-limited!)... the programming feed was the weak link.
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Re: AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

Postby Aaron » Tue Jul 05, 2016 6:07 pm

NWM is no longer considered a separate market. Same reason CFMI can transmit from Mt Seymour. 'NW's backup location can be downtown...no issue.
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Re: AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

Postby jon » Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:41 pm

Maybe my two cohorts will remember the details, but, a few years back, when the three of us had a tour of a local (Edmonton) transmitter site by the Chief Engineer, he told us that he would occasionally run the 50KW station omni-directional at 5000 watts at night, if the type of transmitter/tower work he was doing required it.

I wasn't clear whether he had specific approval from Industry Canada (as it was known at the time of our tour) or was abiding by some general regulations that allow transmitter testing after midnight. In fact, I don't really know what Canada's rules are on transmitter testing, just that the FCC still allows testing after midnight as there was a recent DX test I read about that used those FCC regulations.
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Re: AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

Postby Russ_Byth » Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:09 pm

From Gord Lansdell's NW Broadcasters:
AM 730 CHMJ Vancouver is expected to return to the air later today or early tomorrow after engineers retuned a standby antenna on the downtown TD Tower. Tower 4 at the main Burns Bog transmitter site was cut down around 12:20 p.m. Tuesday following a structural engineering recommendation and safety considerations. An insulator failed, plunging the tower off its base and 30 feet into the bog. The main building, common point building and tower 2 have been saved, but three tower huts were destroyed in the blaze.
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Re: AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

Postby xwdcatvb » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:07 pm

Russ_Byth wrote:From Gord Lansdell's NW Broadcasters:
AM 730 CHMJ Vancouver is expected to return to the air later today or early tomorrow after engineers retuned a standby antenna on the downtown TD Tower. Tower 4 at the main Burns Bog transmitter site was cut down around 12:20 p.m. Tuesday following a structural engineering recommendation and safety considerations. An insulator failed, plunging the tower off its base and 30 feet into the bog. The main building, common point building and tower 2 have been saved, but three tower huts were destroyed in the blaze.


And I'm able to hear 730 albeit miserably in the area of Central Park/Metrotown as of 6.45 pm Wed 6 July.

But this boggles my regulatory mind... so I win approval from the CRTC to operate a broadcasting entity... it fulfills spectrum assignment/transmitter location requirements from IS&EDC... then I can somehow without changing those parameters, plonk a presumed low-powered tx at another location within my primary service area, without any reference/qualification to my licence?

BH!
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Re: AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

Postby jon » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:30 pm

It gets confusing because of the division of responsibilities between whatever Industry Canada is called these days, and the CRTC.

Best example of an even more confusing case than the current 730 case was CKER-FM, Edmonton's long-standing ethnic station. One day, they changed frequency, by 0.2 MHz. It was 8 months before the CRTC published a change to their license to reflect the new frequency.

CKER simply picked up the telephone, called Industry Canada, and had approval within a couple of days to make the move, to resolve an interference issue with another local FM station.

Here is the official CRTC version:
The Commission notes that technical matters, such as the potential for frequency interference, are within the jurisdiction of the Department. In this regard, the Department has advised the Commission that, when CKER-FM began broadcasting at its current site, interference to the signal of CISN-FM Edmonton was found to occur in several parts of Edmonton, and that this interference was eliminated once the applicant commenced broadcasting on the adjacent channel 269C. The Department added that CKER-FM has been operating with interim authority on this new channel since May 2005, and that the Department is satisfied with the results. With regard to the use of channel 269B in Lloydminster, the Department noted that, while some small areas of mutual interference are predicted, the applicant has met the criteria for protection of an unused allotment and that the extent of the interference is considered acceptable.

"the Department" refers to Industry Canada. ref. - http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2006/db2006-8.htm
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Re: AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

Postby radiofan » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:37 pm

Russ_Byth wrote:From Gord Lansdell's NW Broadcasters:
AM 730 CHMJ Vancouver is expected to return to the air later today or early tomorrow after engineers retuned a standby antenna on the downtown TD Tower. Tower 4 at the main Burns Bog transmitter site was cut down around 12:20 p.m. Tuesday following a structural engineering recommendation and safety considerations. An insulator failed, plunging the tower off its base and 30 feet into the bog. The main building, common point building and tower 2 have been saved, but three tower huts were destroyed in the blaze.


In Pitt Meadows/PoCo there is a very weak signal that is mostly static and noise. This won't help city bound commuters.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.
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Re: AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

Postby radiofan » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:44 pm

xwdcatvb wrote:
Mike Cleaver wrote:IIRC, the CKNW transmitter on top of the TD Tower is an approved alternate site if the station cannot operate the main site for any reason.
It has a rubber duck antenna on top of the building, the same one CKWX has atop their building which also has an alternate transmitter there.
I recall that both are rated at only 500 watts but may be limited to 250 watts output.
That won't give much coverage for either station, especially with today's problems with AM interference.
Dave Glasstetter could give the official word on this or the current CE Rob Brown.


Hmmm, really. Or a reference within the actual licence to op? I mean, a broadcasting entity simply can't have facilities to go MoJo separate from their approved location without some rubber stamp... and I can't see anything in 'NW's paperwork that mentions that possibility, regardless of how low-powered the plant might be. Please feel welcome to inform me, and the rest of us.

Mebbe Civil Emergency comes into play, but still, there'd be an OK?

Auxiliary in my experience wuz a secondary/backup tx at the primary site powered by an alternative energy source (quite time-limited!)... the programming feed was the weak link.


After 1966 and the move to Fry's Corner in Cloverdale, CKNW's backup TX was at the old Queensborough site. In the late 1970's, Queensborough was shut down and the property was sold. The backup low power
TX was at the 8th & McBride studios (or possibly at the Edgewater Towers STL site in New West). When they vacated McBride, the backup TX was moved to the TD tower.

CKWX has a backup TX at Ash Street, like they had on Burrad Street.

In Calgary, CHQR had a backup TX at the 9th Avenue QR Centre studios, and that moved to Palliser Square when they moved there in 1984.
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Re: AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

Postby skyvalleyradio » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:46 pm

here at home with DX antennas, CHMJ is loud but it's signal is weak. It's getting beaten up badly at times by KULE Ephrata, still on 1 kW day power as of this posting. It's be interesting to see if I can phase it out after dark to receive other signals on 730
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Re: AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

Postby Jim Walters » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:23 pm

I'm sure the office workers on the upper floors of the TD Tower will be delighted with the havoc created by an on the air transmitter a few floors above them.

Maybe Corus could have worked a deal with Bell and leased 1410 for awhile.
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Re: AM 730 knocked off air by Burns Bog fire

Postby jon » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:43 am

A couple of updates from nwbroadcasters.com:
07/07/16 - A report was received late last night from a DX'er in the Cariboo, in central BC receiving AM 730 CHMJ Vancouver. The back-up transmitter is intended to be 500 watts, but was running about 400 last night with only about 60% modulation until further antenna adjustments are made.

07/06/16 - AM 730 CHMJ Vancouver returned to the air during the dinner hour with 500 watts from the top of the TD Tower office building in the downtown area. The ISED (formerly Industry Canada) approval for temporary emergency service is 1 kW. 250 watts can be run without approval.
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