CKMO or CKWX

[Jack Bennest]

Discussion elsewhere on first real station in Vancouver.


CKMO on the air longer but WX using call letters longer than anyone else.


I agree with Island Kid - that WX has to be thought of as the oldest station.

What happened in the twentys with the sorting out of frequencies and letters is beyond me.

1922 CFCQ
1928 CKMO
1955 CFUN

vs

1923 CFDC
1927 CKWX

just a thought

[jon]

Bill Dulmage wrote and recently revised his histories of CFUN and CKWX on the CCF's http://www.broadcasting-history.ca/. I've quoted the early years of each below (CFUN/CKMO first).

Unless someone has some evidence to contradict what appear to be well-researched station histories, it seems pretty clear that CJCE was Vancouver's first radio station, signing on April 10th, 1922. CFCQ signed on just 10 days later. Two years later, CJCE's owners shut down their station and bought CFCQ, which eventually became CKMO (which changed call letters to CFUN in the 1950s, to CKVN in 1969 and back to CFUN in 1973).


1922
On April 10, Sprott-Shaw Schools of Commerce & Wireless Telegraphy, and Radio Specialties Ltd., started CJCE on 750 kHz with 5 watts of power. Studios were at 153 Pender Street West.

Radio Specialties Ltd. opened CFCQ on April 20, using 40 watts of power on 450 meters. Studios were at 791 Dunsmuir Ave.

1924
Sprott-Shaw closed CJCE and assumed control of Major J.C. Dufresne's CFCQ, and the station's power increased to 50 watts.

1925
CFCQ moved to 730 kHz and increased power to 1,000 watts, sharing time with CKCD and CFDC.

1926
CFCQ 730 reduced power to 50 watts, sharing time with CKCD, CFDC, CKFC, and CJKC.

1927
CFCQ is now sharing time with CKCD and CFDC.

1928
CFCQ became CKMO, sharing time with CKCD and CKWX on 730 kHz.
---------
1923
CFDC began broadcasting in Nanaimo April 1, on 430 meters with 10 watts of power. Arthur "Sparks" Halstead and Bill Hanlon of the Sparks Co., an automotive and electrical firm, started the station. The "DC" in the call letters stood for Direct Current, as in the batteries sold by the firm. The studios were on the second floor of Sparks Co., at Wallace and Fitzwilliam Streets in Nanaimo. Power increased to 50 watts later in the year.

1925
CFDC moved to 730 kHz and power decreased to 10 watts and sharing time with CFCQ, CKCD, CKFC, and CJKC.

1927
CFDC moved from Nanaimo to Vancouver when Sparks opened a branch of his auto-electric business in Vancouver. The move of the station was unauthorized and CFDC was ordered off the air. Enough listeners complained about the closure that the Department of Marine and Fisheries granted a new license, provided different call letters were used. As a result, CKWX signed on the air from studios in the Belmont Hotel. Later in the year, the station moved to the Sparks Company location with a 100 watt transmitter.

[jon]

If the question is "what are the oldest call letters in Vancouver that still exist today?" then the answer, yes CKWX would be the answer (1927).

But until September 1, 1988, the answer would have been CJOR (1926).

So, it really depends on the question.

[jon]

I just thought of a different question: "what Vancouver station has been on their current frequency the longest?".

The answer is CKBD, which has been on 600 KHz since 1933 (as CJOR). One of the few stations that did not get moved in 1941 when most North American stations were assigned new frequencies (often just a few KHz away) under a new North American Radio treaty that finally gave Canada and Mexico a few clear channels with no U.S. stations on them at night when Skip sends signals a long way away.

[butch]

I agree Jon - it is the question that is asked.

I do think that CKWX stands higher as the station with the call letters
that people remember the longest.

Agreed they changed their frequency just like so many other big stations.

Its moot.

[cart_machine]

Discussion elsewhere on first real station in Vancouver.


CKMO on the air longer but WX using call letters longer than anyone else.


I agree with Island Kid - that WX has to be thought of as the oldest station.

Well, T. Dog, the first REAL station isn't in doubt. The Vancouver Province's station was first.

And, as far as I'm concerned, CFUN is the oldest continuing station operating in the city together. The call-letter changes and format changes account for nothing.

CKBD is still the same station that's been on the air since 1926. Nothing changed about the license when CJOR turned into CHRX. Vic Waters certainly seemed to think so; that's why he bemoaned the lack of historical interest in the station by the present management.

The comment about CKWX is ironic in that the current operators feel the call-letters are a liability. If they didn't have to be part of a legal ID at the top of the hour, they'd NEVER be heard, imo.

cArtie.

[skyvalleyradio]

the "WX" in CKWX stands for 'weather' which is certainly part of their current information clockwheel. "WX" is morse-code slang/shorthand for weather but I doubt the pencil-pushers at Rogers would care.

[Jack Bennest]

I cannot argue with a radio historian but I can have an opinion.

Jon is right - it depends on the question. So for each different question we get a different answer.

It is hard to call any of the original broadcast enterprises - radio stations in modern terms..as many didn't broadcast for more than an hour a day and the technology didn't get much listener attention until the 30's - the golden era of radio. In the begining the small transmitters were akin to a ham radio set up.

Also none of us here were born then and when I start researching to find the truth there
is so much info that is contradictory - therefor there are very few facts or undenialables.

[skyvalleyradio]

It is hard to call any of the original broadcast enterprises - radio stations in modern terms..as many didn't broadcast for more than an hour a day and the technology didn't get much listener attention until the 30's - the golden era of radio. In the begining the small transmitters were akin to a ham radio set up.

Also none of here were born then and when I start researching to find the truth there
is so much info that is contradictory - therefor there are very few facts or undenialable.

Top Dog - have you read or do you have a copy of the now long out-of-print "Imagine Please" by Dennis J Duffy?? This book attempts to unravel BC's early broadcasting history with presumably some degree of accuracy & likely containing the same contradictions you talk about. There were indeed many different players that tried their hand running stations & many of these only operated a few hours a day or week on frequencies shared with other part-time broadcasters & Sunday-only church stations. CK "WX" is a good example - some of its broadcast time would have been entertainment/info for the public & at other times weather ("WX") , information & 2-way messages and communication with coastal mariners. I also have a book called "Radio Station Treasury 1900-1946" by one-time coomunications magazine editor/publisher Tom Kneital. It contains prinitngs of official & newspaper frequency directories & listings for various years. In 1926 it shows CFCQ, CFDC, CKCD & CKFC all sharing 730 kc/s CFXC New West (later to morph into CJOR) & CNRW (forerunner of CBC & own by CNR Rail) both on 1030 kc/s. In 1931 CHLS, CKCD, CKFC, CKMO, CKWX were all sharing 730, CHWK Chilliwack on 660 kc/s, CNRV 1030 kc/s, CKOV Kelowna 1200 kc/s, CJOR 1210 (transmitter listed as 'Sea Island') Fascinating stuff!!

[radiofan]

If I had a dollar for everytime I heard someone say "I listen to CKNWX all the time" or "CKNWX is the only station we listen to" .. I'd be rich today.

I'm sure the folks at WX got the same thing from their listeners.

Still it's sad that News 1130 has tossed that portion of their heritage.

[cart_machine]

Jon is right - it depends on the question. So for each different question we get a different answer.

It is hard to call any of the original broadcast enterprises -? radio stations in modern terms..as many didn't broadcast for more than an hour a day

Yes, I agree with Jon. But I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with IslandKid.

Here's my take on it, T. Dog. Radio evolved. It didn't one day burst forth (ha. I had written 'forst') and become what we know today. The "less than an hour a day" stuff was for a very short period.

NBC changed everything.

Its creation resulted in competition, from local stations, from regional (ABC in Seattle) and national (UIB, later CBS) networks. Competition begat commercialization, which begat more frequencies, which begat longer programming schedules. And the listener saw it was good.

How can you tell it's Sunday?

Anyway, my point is while the industry was far different then, it doesn't affect lineage, which is what the topic was. CFUN has a longer direct, unbreakable lineage than CKWX. So that's why I'm disagreeing with I.K. Which is dumb, because then he'll never tell me old radio stories again.

and the technology didn't get much listener attention until the 30's - the golden era of radio. In the begining the small transmitters were akin to a ham radio set up.

But radio *did* get listener attention. True, the audience numbers don't compare to today, or 1950, or even 1930. But radio was a craze in the 20s. There were newspaper columns in the mid 20s where people would talk about their DXing. Newspapers don't devote column space for no particular reason. And look at all the stores by 1927 selling radios. As you know, there was a burst of activity shortly before that time in Vancouver to snap up radio licenses; read 'Puget Sounds' by Richardson and see how the same thing happened in Seattle at the same time.

Also none of here were born then and when I start researching to find the truth there
is so much info that is contradictory - therefor there are very few facts or undenialables.

Likely the facts are out there - we just don't have them readily at hand. And perhaps never will.

cArtie.

[cart_machine]

If I had a dollar for everytime I heard someone say "I listen to CKNWX all the time" or "CKNWX is the only station we listen to" .. I'd be rich today.

I'm sure the folks at WX got the same thing from their listeners.

Still it's sad that News 1130 has tossed that portion of their heritage.

R.F., you have, in your own post, explained the reason why.

It's hard to brand a station when it's being confused for another station. Especially when both are selling a news product.

"News1130" can't be confused with anything.

I understand where management's coming from, but I'm one of these old geezers who worked on Burrard Street and appreciate the old days.

It shows you, though, what a hell of a promotion job Bill Rea, or Bill Hughes, or Hal Davis or whoever did in the late 40s and 50s.

cArtie.

Don't get me started on Pattison or George Madden or whoever was responsible for jettisoning the CJOR call-letters toward Penticton, either.

[cart_machine]

Top Dog - have you read or do you have a copy of the now long out-of-print "Imagine Please" by Dennis J  Duffy??  This book attempts to unravel BC's early broadcasting history with presumably some degree of accuracy & likely containing the same contradictions you talk about.

I found one in a used bookstore a few years ago. The interviews are great. They're available at the BC Archives (for a fee; the government gives away nothing).

Is the whole book transcribed on line? I've seen parts of it on the web.

What surprises me is some of the stuff in Duffy's book simply is at odds with contemporary newspaper accounts, or at least the accounts I've seen. CFDC did not suddenly sign off then reappear later as CKWX. CFDC was on one day and CKWX was on the next. CFCQ did not suddenly become CKMO. CKWO was running programming one day, and the next day, the same programming appeared on CKMO. Did Sprott Shaw decide to park its CFCQ programming on CKWO temporarily? I don't know; it's one of those things I'll have to check. It doesn't appear CKWO was on the air for more than a few months.

It appears Duffy is right that CHCA, CHOC and CHCL didn't have a regular broadcast schedule. If they did, I've found no evidence of it.

I've got the first day of CKWX programming in front of me; it's one of those things I'll post eventually.

cArtie.

[Jack Bennest]

Yes it is Sunday and I am sure RR will see tell you storys JB.

Its RF and me I am worried about.

Back to the thread cArtie says it well - someday we may know the truth but the experts
who we are referring to can't really agree on who did what on what day and when a station was licensed or if they went on illegally two week before. When the call letters were changed or a letter was received.

If I had a lot of time and more importantly money I could retire and answer all your questions by research. But to what end.

I actually like the history period that I cover reasonably well 1945-85 before or after that
I wasn't really around.

[jon]

Radio was already very popular by the mid-1920s. The EKKO company that produced radio stamps that listeners paid stations 10 cents each for, produced more than a million stamps before going broke around 1930 when the Depression hit and people no longer had a lot of dimes.

My grandfather, for example, bought a "Cat's Whisker" radio to listen to a Jack Dempsey fight in 1925 or 1926 on KHQ in Spokane, when he lived there.