NW Ratings plummit...

[Glen Livingstone]

All Joe did was regurgitate numbers he found on the web that you already knew about, T. Dog. There's no analysis - i.e., WHY the numbers are what they are - and it appeared he couldn't be bothered to pick up the phone and get quotes from anyone at the Beat or Corus.

Exactly.

To paraphrase Truman Capote, "That's not writing, that's typing."

[Heard It On The X]

Thanks Raymond

Nice to have you over and for giving us info that some of us landlubbers don't get
on the front porch in the Okanagan

Glad to see Leary landing a print job.

I won't comment too much on his opinions in the piece but safe to say that if he
thinks a 4 share is great - then what is wrong with a 2 share.

He says a well known station is 11th and that's impressive. Tiny Elphicke would
roll over in his grave. I am not here to start an arguement about clusters and corp
ownership but shocked by some of the numbers.

What would it take for that certain well-known station to impress you? The mutt you have there as an avatar kind of betrays your bias.

[Jack Bennest]

I think if WX had a 10 or a 12 share that might impress a lot of people including me and you.

You are dead wrong about my bias.

NW is a crud station holding on to an audience fearful of turning away - but they will soon enough.

But the numbers do tell a story that I don't think you are willing to talk about.

CJOR CKNW CKWX CHQM LG and CFUN used to be the powerhouses in this town.

CJOR is dead
CFUN is on life support
LG was sucked dry
QMusic is dead
and NW remains at the top of some piles of numbers (dropping fast)

Now we can talk about corporate clusters if you want but my reference which you don't like is
that CKWX used to be a powerhouse or tried to be
now its 11th

with CBC 1 and 2 beating it

The Beat beats it

the new QM FM beats its

must I go on?

[cart_machine]

CJOR CKNW CKWX CHQM LG and CFUN used to be the powerhouses in this town.

Well, T.D., that's because once upon a time, there *wasn't* any other radio.

There was no Z.
There was no Beat.
There was no Jack.
There were no CISL or JR for that matter.
QM FM aimed at classical music lovers.
People didn't listen to what FM there was, save the smart people who thought LGFM was cool (after its classical music period).

There's simply no accurate comparison between today's radio and yesterday's radio. The radio market's changed. People's listening habits have changed. That doesn't even take into account the Lower Mainland's demographics aren't what they were when June Cleaver was trying on pearls or you could buy tie-dies anywhere on W. 4th Avenue.

As for X's comment of a perceived bias, T.D., I'm confident there's still enough of the old newsdog in your that you can be objective.

We also both know you can make the ratings say what you want. Ask any salesman

cArtie.

[Jack Bennest]

Now Cartie don't show too much love .... lol

Now to your points - Yes to all that you say BUT

you have to admit of all those stations that were - one is still head and shoulders
above the rest in 'numbers' not quality.

AND it is agreed they are and will lose those numbers because of the lack of talent.
It is also agreed that we are in an era where stations are being invented all the time
and have had a tremendous impact on the radio scene.

My point was and remains that WX and NW were in a head to head battle for decades
with people being bought and sold during that era to buy and audience. CFUN amd CKLG were in a war as well. One survived to become a weak sister.

Interesting fact of life when you steal a morning man - one station gets a boost, the other gets what amounts to a double whammy with its loss.

[radiofan]

My point was and remains that WX and NW were in a head to head battle for decades
with people being bought and sold during that era to buy and audience.

Decades?? No way . Maybe for a couple of years in the 50's around he time NW grabbed Bob Hutton from WX.

From 57 to 62 WX was Rock and Roll, so no real threat to NW.

Through the 60's, WX was Middle of The Road much like NW along with News, Sports and Talk. WX had Mounties Baseball and BC Lions PBP as I recall. NW had Wally Garrett and Jack Webster doing open line.

For much of the 60s and 70s, NW's real competition was CJOR not CKWX.

The numbers that WX gets today are totally respectable for an All News operation. They are definately doing better than the old CKO network ever did.

I highly doubt an All News station in any North American city would ever get a 10 or 12 share.

[Jack Bennest]

Good dialogue - kick the Dog - beetle

I heard somewhere that WX had tried 20 plus morning jocks after Hutton left
in an effort to regain supremecy.

I wasn't there so I can't talk to to the music issue - but other than Red most of the jocks were the old MOR guys - Cal George, even Jim Robson in the am spinning the disks.

I think we are sometimes confused by who is competing with who and who says they are not.

In my mind all stations are going for the gold - the highest numbers they can get.

If Tiny went to rock after Hutton left - it was his thought that rock would take off and it did - but no big dint in the NW armour and then it faded when others got in the game like CFUN then to LG

WX went back to MOR and then MOR/talk and then Country all in attempts to get the numbers.

Now has NW changed - Yes - always with the same intent - hang on to the numbers.

To say WX now is getting good numbers for an all news stations - misses the point.

The have given up trying to be number one. They and I guess people here are now looking at cluster figures and not really hung up on what any one station does for ratings.

Hey we can't agree all the time.

[radiofan]

To say WX now is getting good numbers for an all news stations - misses the point.

They have given up trying to be number one.

In 1996, JR-FM was 10 years old and had pretty much sucked the life out of CKWX and it's Country music format.

There was a few routes the folks at Rogers could go with a 50,000 watt AM stick. Obviously they did research and the hole in the market was All News. In the 10 years since the launch of News 1130 the station has had it's ups and downs, but with it's current 4.0 share, it beats Unforgettable 600, CISL 650, Clear FM, Team 1040 and AM 730.

I am sure that at the time of the change, nobody at Rogers HQ in Toronto or Vancouver management ever envisioned the station would ever be a #1 , #2 or even a top 5 in the market. The station quite obviously hasn't been a disappointment to Rogers. Hell, it even beat the crap out of a clone of itself that Corus put on the air for 16 months.

People do tune in 3, 4, 5 times a day. They may not stay for long periods of time, but they do listen.

Like many others, I used to tune to NW for news. Not anymore. Anytime I am in the car, the radio is on 1130 for News and Traffic info and then onto CD's for tunes.