What's It Going To Take...?

General Radio News and Comments, Satellite & Internet Radio and LPFM

Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby pave » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:26 am

As Mike reports:
I hear this "you" crap from most stations.


This would still be an accurate report, Mike, even if it had read: "I hear this "you" crap from every station and every on-air communicator."

This is a concept that went viral many years ago and I expect you're willing to agree how we were both guilty of applying it at sometime in our own careers - without thought or considerations of consequences.

I got taken down a dark alley and was mugged by the linguistic alternatives in 1980 and, as can be imagined: I still have the scars. That, and a large set of marvelous experiences that demonstrate the efficacies of applying these alternatives.

Meanwhile, another example: Let's say the Jock sez something along the lines of "...and I'm glad you're listening..." The listener has no choice other than to go through a process of: a.) realising they don't know the jock and the Jock doesn't know them, b.) realising they are being jerked around or pandered to, and c.) realises the Jock is an insincere, manipulative sunovabitch or, possibly, not bright enough to understand what they just said is bogus at so many levels.

Another irony is in that there are no bad intentions being offered by either the Jock or the listener. However, these mental machinations do take place - at the unconscious level - the place where language is processed. And the damage still gets done.
pave
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 1619
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 12:22 pm

Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby glaherty » Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:15 pm

" Oh Crash, you do make speeches." What's our record Larry? 8 and 16. How'd we ever win 8? It's a miracle.
glaherty
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 691
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:11 am

Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby FORMER-BOSSJOCK » Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:39 pm

glaherty wrote:" Oh Crash, you do make speeches." What's our record Larry? 8 and 16. How'd we ever win 8? It's a miracle.

Crash made a brief stop in "The Show" but he was basically a minor leaguer. Need I say more?
FORMER-BOSSJOCK
Member
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:28 pm

Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby glaherty » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:52 pm

You hit white balls for batting practise, the ballparks are like cathedrals, and the women all have long legs and brains.
glaherty
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 691
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:11 am

Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby FORMER-BOSSJOCK » Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:16 pm

glaherty wrote:You hit white balls for batting practise, the ballparks are like cathedrals, and the women all have long legs and brains.

Ah yes, those were the days, but it doesn't explain why this Pave dude threw this unperspicuous disquisition at us. Talk to YOU tomorrow. So long every body.
FORMER-BOSSJOCK
Member
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:28 pm

Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby pave » Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:48 pm

but it doesn't explain why this Pave dude threw this unperspicuous disquisition at us.


It is because Radio has, for decades, been foisting on us a pack of uneducated, undisciplined, disinterested, disingenuous, innocuous, babbling, superficial, banal and arrogant communicators whose only claim to the title of "Communicator" is their always tenuous position behind a microphone.

All this continues, by the way, as the Art and Methodology of Communications has been taking inordinate leaps in other fields of endeavour.

I just happen to be in the unenviable position of a guy with a strong history in Radio and an equally strong education in Communications.

I also believe that unless the communicative aspect of Radio is brought up to speed, the Industry has no future for anyone who couldn't also be working for a dry cleaners or at Rotten McRon's.

That's why.
pave
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 1619
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 12:22 pm

Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby Howaboutthat » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:11 pm

hey pave...

its been 4+ years for me.... how long since you've been working for a broadcast radio station as an employee. (Don't want there to be any misinterpretation about what I'm asking)
Houston, We're dealing with morons!.
User avatar
Howaboutthat
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: Vernon

Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby gwp » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:45 pm

I have no idea who most of you are ... but pave and mike are right. When one visualizes a radio audience one must think of tearing the roofs off all the houses and visualizing all that is going on for all those who would be listening.

To say something in the morning like "It's 7:45 and time for you to grab your brief case and head to work." ... is just stupid. it ignores and belittles the listener who is looking at the two brown bags on the counter and wondering which one is a meager lunch and the other is the garbage.

Radio listeners do listen one at a time, but the radio presenter must consider his total audience and communicate with attention to words that are broadly inclusive. The inappropriate use and over use of "you" is counter productive to the process of gaining and keeping an audience. The wisdom is in knowing the difference.

What's hard about that? Doesn't anyone teach that every listener matters (even those outside the target demo) anymore? Or is it more important just to keep the transmitter modulated with no consideration for art of manufacturing and keeping the audience.

And for the record, I haven't been employed in radio for nearly the quarter century I was happy in the industry. That said, radio listeners, are radio listeners, are radio listeners. There are constants to reach people. Unhappily, today's radio listener is not exposed to the medium's full potential. S/he is not getting the full benefit of what is possible. But, maybe today's radio is like the politicians ... we get what we deserve.
gwp
gwp
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:57 pm

Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby glaherty » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:14 pm

"I just happen to be in the unenviable position of a guy with a strong history in Radio and an equally strong education in Communications." (Pave)


Could you please elaborate on said "strong history," or would that require you coming out of witness protection? :wink: Did you do it under the name of Pave? Why must we guess whether your resume and career, match your portrayal of it?
I'm not claiming Pave doesn't have a strong history, just that I'd like to evaluate it for myself, rather than being sold, and told it, as fact. Again we get into forum anonymity, and we're never a winner on that track. Not saying there isn't any merit to his points, just that they're being presented as stone tablets from the Mount, and it's a tad much. I don't think anything he's saying here is going to have any particular impact on the air to be brutally honest. It's perhaps a subtle thing that could be argued either way, but it ain't a real "difference maker".Sorry.
Now, Mighty Mouth will no doubt rip me for being too ambiguous. lp.
glaherty
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 691
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:11 am

Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby Jack Bennest » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:01 am

What makes one grannie better than another granny? (yes I do that to bug Howaboutyourspellin)

Personality. I think audiences like a Monty, a Jake, a Frosty, a Roy, a Fred, a Hault, a Bob - because they had spent years
developing a style, a character, a voice, a jive that attracted listeners.

That's all - I don't think you can define it and cut it apart into pieces. What was that guy's name on late night - o yea - Johnny ~
just about forgot the name but not the personality. He could look at the screen and you would laff.

Radio is going down hill for four reasons in my mind - limited personality, crappy news, and terrible music. AND too many choices on the frequency bands - all quite "shotty" and not compelling or addictive.

Now its time for me to hustle out into the real world and make a few dollars cleaning floors
User avatar
Jack Bennest
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 4472
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:25 pm

Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby pave » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:16 am

I appreciate the contributions being made to this thread. Even the nay-sayers are expressing legitimate points - certainly sincere.
Allow me to address some of what I think are the more pertinent ones in order of their appearance.

how long since you've been working for a broadcast radio station as an employee.

I pulled out in '95 out of pure frustration with formatics, incompetent, sociopathic, alcoholic and erratic management. I continued to write and produce commercial content and voicing - still do.

When one visualizes a radio audience one must think of tearing the roofs off all the houses and visualizing all that is going on for all those who would be listening.

This is an outstanding explanation of the situation in which broadcasters find themselves. Likewise, "Your at-work station" becomes insulting and inaccurate to a very large portion of the audience at any given time. This, on two levels. 1.) this is not applicable, obviously, to those not listening on the job and, 2.) the statement implies ownership. (The listener response to that can be: "I'll tell you what I own. You don't tell me.")

Also, the rest of the post strikes me as pure Gold. Very astute.

Could you please elaborate on said "strong history," or would that require you coming out of witness protection?

I'm not allowed to confirm or deny anything about The Program. An' I ain't no Snitch, neither.
I posted my resume earlier in the thread. But even if I was a baker who was a fan of Radio, I would still urge readers to consider the messages and disregard the messenger (moi).

I don't think anything he's saying here is going to have any particular impact on the air to be brutally honest. It's perhaps a subtle thing that could be argued either way, but it ain't a real "difference maker".Sorry.

No apology required, but appreciated anyway.
I'm satisfied this is an extremely valid point. Indeed, this material, when presented on-the-air is so subtle that nobody notices. Not PD's, managers or members of the audience. At least, not so much that they have commented.
Audiences, however, do respond as if they're holding all Aces - with greater cumes, hours-tuned and quarter-hours. Dozens and dozens of rating-period results might be acceptable as ample evidence. The application of these points - most of which I have not even mentioned - are also effective strategies for commercial production - although somewhat more difficult to provide empirical evidence on that given all the vagaries of advertising.

Personality. I think audiences like a Monty, a Jake, a Frosty, a Roy, a Fred, a Hault, a Bob - because they had spent years
developing a style, a character, a voice, a jive that attracted listeners.

I agree. Unique Personalities are rare gems indeed. However, that hundreds of others wandered in and out of the Control Rooms without distinction is still the working reality.... and Radio's challenge.

That's all - I don't think you can define it and cut it apart into pieces.

On this point, of course, I'm going to disagree and I wouldn't expect anyone to accept that at face value. Not only can communication skills be taught - so can confidence, ability to risk and creative strategies. I will agree, though, that so far and traditionally, these are aspects of individual personalities that were likely in place before hitting the Radio.

Meanwhile and for many, the very idea that there is more to this than the surface structure we have all come to accept as being the total... is scary enough. This would be a reasonable and legitimate response, as well. When I started realising how little I did know about the skills of my own profession, I was grateful to be sitting down and having access to the cure for hyperventilation. :bag:

And yet, we soldier on.
pave
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 1619
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 12:22 pm

Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby pave » Fri Oct 08, 2010 7:11 am

As an addendum to the point made earlier about these ideas/techniques being too subtle to make a difference to the listening experience of an audience-member:

My own experience in Radio and other communicative fields demonstrates that we are discussing the differences that make the difference.

Were the application of these - and many other - techniques to be noticeable, an audience member would have every right and reason to conclude they were being manipulated.

Most people don't mind or don't notice when they are being influenced. But when we realise we are being manipulated by salespeople, pitchmen, managers, peers, friends or da gummint, we are tempted to hunt them down like the dogs they are.

We may not even be completely aware when we are being manipulated, but I think most would agree: When we are - sumthin' just don't feel right... and credibility is lost.

And that describes a position an on-air communicator just might want to avoid. 'Cause, when that happens, a number of listeners may be tempted to reach out through the microphone and choke the livin' bejeezus out of us all - just for sport.

But, they can't. So, they tune out instead.
pave
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 1619
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 12:22 pm

Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby pave » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:00 am

Before diving into the turkey, undoing my belt and lapsing into a coma, let me offer a perspective on this material.

There are, after all, only two elements to what comes out of the Radio box.... what we play and... what we say.

For decades, programmers and consultants have been making distinctions about music rotation, spot placements and jock participation - the latter being mostly about jock-inhibition. Hence the ubiquitous position of "More Schlock - Less Jocks And More Commercial Free Music Sweeps Than Those Dickheads Down The Street."

At no time, and I mean, not ever... never, to my knowledge, has anyone ever considered any of the distinctions that are being made in this thread.

Ladies and Gennelmens... I submit: There are no other elements of the Radio dynamic that have not been addressed except for this one - the most important one. A Music format can be determined over a weekend and maintaining it is a matter of housekeeping. Commercial production - an opportunity for creative, precise and influential communicating - has been relegated to the space closest to the trash cans. This is an unforgiveable travesty and an amazing phenomena given the fact that the spots are what generate the revenue.

I further submit that: until or unless this aspect of a Radio Communicator's skill-set is engaged and enhanced, we will continue to have the banalities, superficialities and thoroughly dissatisfying gibberish to which we are exposed and, for some, which we are being compelled to deliver on-the-air.

So far, I have offered only two components: 1. The questionable and arrogant position of making demands for behaviours and, 2. The disaster that comes from assuming an intimate, one-to-one contact with a listener.

And that's just a beginning. There is more - much more.
Last edited by pave on Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pave
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 1619
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 12:22 pm

Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby Howaboutthat » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:08 am

Oh good. :shock:
Houston, We're dealing with morons!.
User avatar
Howaboutthat
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: Vernon

Re: What's It Going To Take...?

Postby yathink » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:19 am

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, if there's a reasonable doubt in your minds as to the guilt of the accused, a reasonable doubt, then you must bring me a verdict of not guilty. If however, there is no reasonable doubt, then you must in good conscience find the accused guilty. However you decide, your verdict must be unanimous. In the event that you find the accused guilty, the bench will not entertain a recommendation for mercy. The death sentence is mandatory in this case. You are faced with a grave responsibility. Thank you, now hang em, and let's see what's on TV.
I can't give you a brain, but I can give you a diploma.
User avatar
yathink
Advanced Member
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:07 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General Radio News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 93 guests