Any AM Stereo stations left?

[jon]

My only AM Stereo receiver bit the bullet, ironically, just about the time that CHQT switched from AM Stereo Oldies to All News. Even bigger irony: Shaw Edmonton stopped carrying CHQT in studio quality stereo just days before the switch.

I recently lost access to the great AM sound of my PT Cruiser car radio when the repair bills started to mount on the car, so I'd be interested in others' opinions of the audio spectrum covered by W-14-40 (CKJR-1440 Wetaskiwin) for those with really good AM radios. Not sure my car radio was capturing the full high end, but the rest of the spectrum, especially the low end, was fabulous. W-14-40 is mono, not AM Stereo.

[TRENT310]

Is that "Station Spectrum Display" your presets or tuneable signals?

It scans the band and puts a dot on any freq with adequate RSSI, and then you can set 'high', 'mid', and 'low' levels to cut off signals lower than -n dB (where the tiers begin and end I don't know yet)

The user presets are just numbers, they're not displayed.

The odd thing is that the scan up and down buttons only scan between those automatically determined stations via the band scan, it won't increment the frequency. It's sorta like 'seek' on car decks instead of 'tune' which I was expecting. So to go from like 550kHz to 560kHz I usually have to poke 'AM' and then '55' then 'AM' and '56' etc, etc. No easy scanning.

That said, I love direct input tuning. It would just be nice to have multiple input methods. Like my G5, which has a rotary encoder 'VFO style' knob, up and down arrows, and direct input so that all the bases are covered.

My biggest challenge right now is building an antenna for this thing, since it does not have one built in at all. The longwire is obviously quite cumbersome as I cannot easily adjust its angle... my benchmark is my Electrohome Lunchbox radio (my favourite London Drugs $19 special which has amazing RF, especially on AM, but is sadly not marketed as such) - if it can pull in 1530 KFBK just sitting on the floor then I should be able to do that with any other AM tuner.
I was thinking PVC frame loop or something.

[TRENT310]

My only AM Stereo receiver bit the bullet, ironically, just about the time that CHQT switched from AM Stereo Oldies to All News. Even bigger irony: Shaw Edmonton stopped carrying CHQT in studio quality stereo just days before the switch.

I recently lost access to the great AM sound of my PT Cruiser car radio when the repair bills started to mount on the car, so I'd be interested in others' opinions of the audio spectrum covered by W-14-40 (CKJR-1440 Wetaskiwin) for those with really good AM radios. Not sure my car radio was capturing the full high end, but the rest of the spectrum, especially the low end, was fabulous. W-14-40 is mono, not AM Stereo.

1440 sounds great in wideband, have been since I used to listen to them during the Cat Country days. Basically the only one in the Edmonton listening area that doesn't is 790 CFCW which is just horrible in wideband, as in, it doesn't really make a difference, so they're probably putting out a narrow band signal to begin with. 830 CKKY, my most often listened to station, has average quality (so not bad), but is nothing compared to the rich audio from 910 CKDQ. 580 sounds great in wide, there's actually high frequency response. Sometimes I can actually hear the encoding artifacts from the digital content that stations use, I guess to try and save bandwidth for the majority of listeners who can't tell.

That's just a qualitative evaluation by me, no numbers or anything to back it up though.

[i2thesky]

[quote]Basically the only one in the Edmonton listening area that doesn't is 790 CFCW which is just horrible in wideband, as in, it doesn't really make a difference, so they're probably putting out a narrow band signal to begin with.[/quote

I'm pretty sure they do that for familiarity. I can remember ol' CFCW sounding exactly like that in the '70's All Mid range, no bottom or top end, even during the AM stereo days, only with a bit more twangy high end. I think they figure that the only thing you ca hear out of a blaring loud radio inside a very loud combine is mid range. They are right to that extent but the audio quality is pathetic on any decent am radio, and there are still some out there.

[TRENT310]

Basically the only one in the Edmonton listening area that doesn't is 790 CFCW which is just horrible in wideband, as in, it doesn't really make a difference, so they're probably putting out a narrow band signal to begin with.[/quote

I'm pretty sure they do that for familiarity. I can remember ol' CFCW sounding exactly like that in the '70's All Mid range, no bottom or top end, even during the AM stereo days, only with a bit more twangy high end. I think they figure that the only thing you ca hear out of a blaring loud radio inside a very loud combine is mid range. They are right to that extent but the audio quality is pathetic on any decent am radio, and there are still some out there.

Good point, and I'm not particularly criticizing them for that - simply making a comparison to other stations. I don't want to say that because then they might find another reason why they should switch the stations to FM, and that should not happen. I'd take audio with high and low cut over no coverage area any day.

Anyone else notice that CFCW has its own characteristic background noise which is most noticeable during dead air? Same with CFRN 1260, except it's different.
Most other stations have a clean(er) carrier. Anyway sometimes near the top of the hour and there's only 2 minutes left and they can't fit a song in or something during that time the computer apparently chooses to simply wait until it hits :00 -- that's when I notice it. What kind of equipment is at the CFCW transmitter site? I'm imagining some ancient Continental Electronics product or something, but I'm probably wrong?

[jon]

I'll let someone who actually knows give the definitive answer. But CFCW has a more complex situation than most stations, with their daily broadcasting from two different studios, at least 50 miles apart: West Edmonton Mall (WEM) and Camrose. The transmitter is in a third location, South West of Camrose.

Again, just going by little bits of things I've heard or observed, AM Drive and Evenings are from WEM, and middays from Camrose. Not sure about PM Drive or weekends. And I was surprised to observe recently that Evening News is from WEM. No idea about the rest of the dayparts for News.

Those kind of distances are error-prone, in terms of consistently clean audio on audio lines.

Earlier mention of CKUA-AM on 580 talked about great sound quality. Radiofan and I visited the transmitter site in late Spring and observed a Link pointed at the FM transmitter site. Couldn't be sure it is still in use, but, if so, that would provide excellent audio quality.

I'd always assumed that all the transmitters in the province, including Edmonton's AM/FM pair, used the station's satellite feed that they pioneered in the mid-1970s.

[TRENT310]

I'll let someone who actually knows give the definitive answer. But CFCW has a more complex situation than most stations, with their daily broadcasting from two different studios, at least 50 miles apart: West Edmonton Mall (WEM) and Camrose. The transmitter is in a third location, South West of Camrose.

Again, just going by little bits of things I've heard or observed, AM Drive and Evenings are from WEM, and middays from Camrose. Not sure about PM Drive or weekends. And I was surprised to observe recently that Evening News is from WEM. No idea about the rest of the dayparts for News.

Those kind of distances are error-prone, in terms of consistently clean audio on audio lines.

What do you mean by error prone? Are they still using leased lines for audio? Is part of it over the internet or dedicated packet-switched connection? Or simple PCM audio over private lines? Broadcast auxiliary STL, wireless maybe?

I'd like to know, because I close to never see STL dishes at AM stations, only FM ones. Like how CKJR 1440's studios on 50th ave Wetaskiwin well they're just a unit at the edge of a strip mall basically. All I really see is a highish-band (ku?) satellite dish and a loop... I didn't have the courage to go in and ask about things though, I would probably have also asked if they had any old leftover Cat Country 1440 KJR posters/signage or other promo stuff.

Earlier mention of CKUA-AM on 580 talked about great sound quality. Radiofan and I visited the transmitter site in late Spring and observed a Link pointed at the FM transmitter site. Couldn't be sure it is still in use, but, if so, that would provide excellent audio quality.

I'd always assumed that all the transmitters in the province, including Edmonton's AM/FM pair, used the station's satellite feed that they pioneered in the mid-1970s.

So it is downstream from the FM TX or are both sites receiving a parallel feed?

[jon]

By error-prone, I was referring to the long and multi-component path that CFCW-AM audio would travel from studio to transmitter.

Unfortunately, I don't have any more technical answers. Just the things I mentioned that I observed.

It is always difficult to guess from what you see on studios and transmitter sites. For example, the 7th tower on the CHED transmitter site has an antenna for a link to the Roper Road studios. But you just cannot tell by looking whether it is still in use, is only a backup, or is simply a relic that has never been removed.

The best example of "relic" that I've seen in Edmonton is the buildings of varying sizes around each of the towers of the CBX-AM transmitter just NE of the Edmonton International Airport. I've got to believe that they haven't been used in more than a quarter century, but there they remain. I know of other stations that store or have stored their old vinyl music library in the buildings around the transmitter because it was storage space going to waste.

As for W-14-40, there might be a Sales guy who works out of the building, but otherwise, I think Morning Man Billy Williams is the sole occupant. And even he voice tracks at least one hour of the mid-morning so he can go out for an early lunch. The Camrose building is home to many more.

Nice pic of the W-14-40 studios, by the way. I'd forgotten that CAM-FM is also on the signage outside. Or maybe it was added since Radiofan and I visited 2-3 years ago.

[TRENT310]

By error-prone, I was referring to the long and multi-component path that CFCW-AM audio would travel from studio to transmitter.

Unfortunately, I don't have any more technical answers. Just the things I mentioned that I observed.

Oh, ok.

It is always difficult to guess from what you see on studios and transmitter sites. For example, the 7th tower on the CHED transmitter site has an antenna for a link to the Roper Road studios. But you just cannot tell by looking whether it is still in use, is only a backup, or is simply a relic that has never been removed.

True, but at the same time you know that on the tower next to the Corus multi-station studios that at least something on there is in use...

Semi-related: Remember that time a few years ago when someone crashed a vehicle into a power transformer on Roper and took out power to the Corus studios, and along with it their stations? I remember dead air for a bit and then they timed out and dropped carrier as well. I heard CKOV 630 in Edmonton that day (yes, day). Backup... not only at the tx site level!

The best example of "relic" that I've seen in Edmonton is the buildings of varying sizes around each of the towers of the CBX-AM transmitter just NE of the Edmonton International Airport. I've got to believe that they haven't been used in more than a quarter century, but there they remain. I know of other stations that store or have stored their old vinyl music library in the buildings around the transmitter because it was storage space going to waste.

Interesting. One time I was exploring Beaumont and the Rge. 243 just west of the town turned out to be the CBX site. My CB radio in the truck was picking up a lot of electrical noise modulated with audio content because of the field strength in the area. And on the broadcast AM radio every frequency was CBC lol.
Wish I had brought a good camera that time. Oh well I go transmitter site spotting on weekends anyway, I'll be back eventually...

As for W-14-40, there might be a Sales guy who works out of the building, but otherwise, I think Morning Man Billy Williams is the sole occupant. And even he voice tracks at least one hour of the mid-morning so he can go out for an early lunch. The Camrose building is home to many more.

Yeah, or Lloydminster, which seems to be the other Newcap hub ... probably even bigger because of the TV operations too?
Next time I have a delivery that way I might visit, or track down the CKKY transmission site south east of Wainwright. Gotta find the station that I listen to all the time right?
Speaking of voice tracking, Key 83 randomly re-runs the voice tracks from Russ Williams' mid days in the late nights for NO apparent reason - but obviously from the voice track, all the recent songs played are completely incorrect since the content is automatically selected at night. I don't get it, maybe I should send an email to someone there and ask.

Nice pic of the W-14-40 studios, by the way. I'd forgotten that CAM-FM is also on the signage outside. Or maybe it was added since Radiofan and I visited 2-3 years ago.

Are there any operations from CFCW-FM originating from there at all? I didn't fully understand why their logo was up on the sign as well, apart from the obvious Newcap connection.

[jon]

Nice pic of the W-14-40 studios, by the way. I'd forgotten that CAM-FM is also on the signage outside. Or maybe it was added since Radiofan and I visited 2-3 years ago.

Are there any operations from CFCW-FM originating from there at all? I didn't fully understand why their logo was up on the sign as well, apart from the obvious Newcap connection.

I don't believe that CAM-FM has any facilities in the W-14-40 building, not even when they do Remotes in Wetaskiwin. CAM-FM does have a strong Sales presence in Wetaskiwin and the W-14-40 Sales folks undoubtedly sell both stations to customers at the same time. I'd actually be surprised if they don't also sell CFCW-AM at the same time.

I suspect the only reason that CFCW-AM isn't on the signage on that building is that they have always tried to stress the Local side of W-14-40. Hard to say, but there might be concerns about raising "red flags" with the CRTC with Newcap owning two AMs that cover the same community. The ownership limit is 1 AM and 1 FM for markets that size.

Further aggravating the problem is the fact that the CFCW call letters actually were chosen to have the last two letters stand for "Camrose" and "Westaskiwin", not Country & Western as many have speculated. Also note how CFCW-AM's official City of License is Camrose-Edmonton, not Camrose-Westaskiwin-Edmonton. Had it been the latter, Newcap could never have bought W-14-40 without selling CFCW-AM.

[Eldon-Mr.CFAY]

Hi Everyone, Had been wondering about the number of stations using AM Stereo for sometime. Since I don't have an AM Stereo receiver I can't monitor for them. Very interesting update on this thread about that, many thanks to everyone for all the useful info.!!! I was going to get Sony AM Stereo Portable years ago but didn't bother. VE7ROX (Jim) showed me his and I think I saw RadioFans a long time ago, the radio impressed me but I just forgot about getting one. Since a lot of AM stations don't use AM Stereo it probably wouldn't be that helpful to have one now! I've got quite a few articles in older electrconic magazines like Poplular Electronics and Radio-TV Electronics (or Electronics Now) that went into quite a bit of detail about AM Stereo broadcasting! By the way those magazines have not been published for quite a few years now. For electronic construction projects the current one is Nut N Volts published monthly out of California. I usually get it monthly along with Popular Communications and Monitoring times, haven't seen anything about AM Stereo recently in those magazines though! Take care, good listening!

[TRENT310]

So, thus far from the discussions on this thread, I should be looking for QR77 CHQR 770 on the AM broadcast band for a stereo signal, and they are still running it now?

[jon]

And, at night, seeing what you can get from this list referenced above:
http://meduci.com/stations.html
1200 from Vancouver and 1620 from Seattle, and maybe 800 from Moose Jaw if you can get away from CFCW-790, and CKNW-980 Vancouver if you can get away from CJME Regina. In the '80s, CFUN delivered a solid stereo signal here in Edmonton at night, so distance shouldn't be an issue.

[gordo54]

So, thus far from the discussions on this thread, I should be looking for QR77 CHQR 770 on the AM broadcast band for a stereo signal, and they are still running it now?

...yes, 'QR77 is still running in AM Stereo... I look at the remote control panel most every day... and the 'stereo' LED is lit...

[TRENT310]

And, at night, seeing what you can get from this list referenced above:
http://meduci.com/stations.html
1200 from Vancouver and 1620 from Seattle, and maybe 800 from Moose Jaw if you can get away from CFCW-790, and CKNW-980 Vancouver if you can get away from CJME Regina. In the '80s, CFUN delivered a solid stereo signal here in Edmonton at night, so distance shouldn't be an issue.

I did scan the band but it didn't trip the stereo in anything. Since the pilot tone is a very low frequency instead of a very high one (as in FM) I figure it should easily cut through noise, right? Also, I'm trying the stuff on the list but not completely believing it because it lists CHQT and CKMX and we know for sure that those aren't stereo anymore. Anyway, I'll keep trying.

I need to build a directional antenna that is adjustable. Any ideas guys?
My Lunchbox radio as mentioned picks up stuff from here and there and California so the signal is definitely "there" - I just need to feed it into the receiver somehow.