Microsoft IE 7

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Postby Glen Livingstone » Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:20 pm

Just curious VanMan ...

Is there anyone on this board who meets with your approval?

I await your withering reply.
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Postby PMC » Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:05 pm

VanMan wrote: So I downloaded the new Internet Explorer today. Once I got used to it, I realized I liked it. I'm sure Dear John Sykes will have a problem with it, not to mention I'm sure Tuned will give us his opinion...and then say there's no reason to upgrade.

IE7 has many things that Firefox has had for a couple of years.

You might also want to give Opera(pronounced as Oh Pra), a web browser from Norway.

http://www.opera.com/

And if you never tried/used FireFox...

http://www.mozilla.com/

Firefox gets high points because it is all open source.

AND your comment(s) about John Sykes, and others, only shows how insecure you are.
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Postby johnsykes » Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:19 pm

This is directed to PMC...many thanks....I've been on Firefox for the last year....way better than IE
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Postby Aaron » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:05 am

I do prefer Opera, but neither my Web-banking nor corporate email work on it.

All it took was the tabbed-browsing to get me to try IE7, and I 've switched.
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Postby jon » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:41 am

Only problem, so far, with IE7 is that Citrix (used to access my employer's network from home) asks me to install the Citrix client, presumably because Citrix has a different version for IE7.

Everything else I've tried works fine.

Whether I like or dislike IE is irrelevant to my choice to use it, since my experience says that I work better when my work and home computer environments are as similar as possible.
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Postby PMC » Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:44 am

There is a serious issue of corporate web software only working with Microsoft's IE.

These web developers use code that only works within the IE browser. Doing this blocks the use of anyone using a Window's operating system and a non IE browser.

Unfortunately many of these web developers have never used another operating system or web browser, and the corporate management is technically ignorant of how Microsoft likes to keep their captive market due to their marketing techniques for marketshare.

The issues of a captive market are many... basicly a control issue. Microsoft wants everybody to use their OS, so they design things to keep the masses locked in... it then becomes their way or no way.

IE7 is now restricted to working only in XP or the latest OS Vista, which is not released yet. This will bother many because there are people that still use Win98 or Millenium as an OS. This also compounds the corporate access problem, and will force many to upgrade their OS, when it may not be necessary.

Another issue is called Open Source. When a product is Open Source, the user has the ability to get the source code, and modify that code if so desired. This allows the user to not become a victim of the software developer, and to become a kind of partner. Microsoft product is not considered to be Open Source.

Although this discussion is about IE7, the issue also relates to office product like word processors, spreadsheets, and database software. Microsoft has their own product which follows their format, and other companies have product that follow the Open Source format. This includes operating systems like Linux which is also Open Source product.

Many institutions, from corporate to government want a format that is open for all data, so that information can be shared, and not become obsolete because the developer brings out a new version that has a higher price tag, and a restricted format... thus the reason why Open Source is becoming very popular.

The percentage of use for software product, other than Microsoft, has gone up due to the Open Source demand. I expect it to continue, especially when Microsoft's new OS Vista is released.

There are several versions of Linux that will get very popular since hardware corporations are installing it at the factory, and it keeps the cost of a new machine down and has all the bells of whistles that Window's would have.

Anyone interested is using Linux can try any or all of these links.

http://www.knoppix.org/ and click on the british american flag for the page in english. This version can be bought on disc or downloaded as an ISO file. It can run directly from the CD without being installed on the hard disk.

http://www.ubuntu.com/ is a very popular version with good support. It too can be downloaded or bought on CD. It can be installed with Window's, but on a separate hard disk partition. It will run from the CD, but is better/faster when installed.

http://www.linspire.com/ is out of California and another very commercial version... costs about $70. This version of Linux is pre-installed on many machines sold at WalMart.

All of the above come with office based software called Open Office, and many other things from games to media players.

The $ factor is enormous on a large scale... as example a city with ten thousand employees and computers can use Linux for a cost far less than what a Microsoft Windows format would be. The data then is shared in an Open Source format. If all government agencies adopted Open Source, appreciate the $ savings and also the ability to share the data.

This is happening now, as budgets get adjusted to stop the flow of endless $ payments towards Microsoft while creating document compatibility via Open Source.

I predict that Bill and his boys will eventually release their own version of Linux, and Window's will be history. It may take many years, but the writing is on the wall, or should I say Window :)
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Postby PMC » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:00 am

jonedmonton wrote: Only problem, so far, with IE7 is that Citrix (used to access my employer's network from home) asks me to install the Citrix client, presumably because Citrix has a different version for IE7.

I am/was a big fan of Citrix until I used Real VNC client and server.

http://www.realvnc.com and it is open source.
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Postby jon » Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:11 pm

Citrix was and remains a pile of crap. Almost a year ago, it took our very competent folks at work nearly 4 months to get it working well enough for on-call staff to use. At another large local organization, where my brother-in-law works, they got Citrix working a couple of years ago and don't dare change any versions of any software component that they run through Citrix for fear that it will fail.

As my boss put it, why not just connect to our office workstation machines from home? He used Citrix at TELUS in the late '90s, and knows the headaches involved.

Needless to say, I have no alternative but to install the Citrix client they give me, as they won't support me if I don't.

As for open source, it sounds like my employer is seriously considering moving to Java from the predecessor of .NET that they must soon replace as it runs out of Microsoft support. The debate now is whether they will run Java on z/Linux or z/OS, both of which run on our IBM mainframe. People have suddenly realized that their "cheap Intel servers" have now multiplied to the point that they cost more than our mainframe where most of the real work is done.
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Postby jon » Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:09 pm

Citrix is that picky. You have to have just the right version/release/modification level of Citrix, Java and every software product you run, plus relevant patches. The poor folks stuck with the Citrix project would think they had one that works, then 9 people would test it, and two or more weeks later the tenth person would find some essential (to that person) feature of one of the supported software products that wouldn't work, typically hanging Citrix.

There were others, but the biggest problem was the 1998 version of the Attachmate EXTRA mainframe terminal emulator that no one will pony up the money to upgrade for the entire employee population. They finally gave up on it, tried the current version, but someone finally found some essential (to them) feature that didn't work. In the end, they bought licenses for IBM PComm, which worked first time, but then had to train all the on-call folks, and let them have time to all test and sign off on it.

Reminds me of Microsoft Access 97: there were six ways to do anything, but only one of those six ways actually worked. Weirdest problem I remember was where a certain operation wouldn't work no matter how many different ways I tried it on a database field. Shortened the name to 12 characters (Access allows 30 character names) and it instantly worked.

As I said previously, pity the poor soul who has to implement a working Citrix environment.
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Postby PMC » Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:45 pm

jonedmonton wrote: As I said previously, pity the poor soul who has to implement a working Citrix environment.

I have never run Citrix to a mainframe, only Win2k servers and it has always worked fine. There was also no specialty software running, only standard windows programs, or software that was solid in a non Citrix environment. I do agree on the constant cash grab and instability, which is and the reasons I believe open source will fly... no forced updates when a recompile can be done on older or modified source code.

The MS Access is a junior joke to MS Sql. Each packs the data, and is easily lost, either from corruption or service pack upgrades... it does keep the cash flowing to Bill's boys for the hefty tech support contracts... and some wonder where the billions come from :)

MySql is great database software... can be in several languages including Java, or C/C++ http://www.mysql.com/ ..is also another fine open source product that works for you and not against you.
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