Vancouver Fall 09 BBM / PPM All Persons 2+

Regina and Saskatoon Numeris 12+ Diary Ratings

Vancouver Fall 09 BBM / PPM All Persons 2+

Postby radiofan » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:37 am

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Talk

Postby slowhand » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:43 pm

Despite all the talk about PPM's really changing how Talk-oriented stations will score in the ratings, there is certainly no sign of that being true. All Traffic (730) and All News (1130) basically haven't changed at all since the last ratings. And All Sports (1040) isn't much different either. Even the gonzo 1410 format is the same as last time. :mousewalk
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Re: Vancouver Fall 09 BBM / PPM All Persons 2+

Postby mightymouth » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:44 pm

radiofan wrote:Image


So, here's my take. "All Traffic" shows a tremendous consistency, and Christians don't listen to the radio.
You're welcome.
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Re: Vancouver Fall 09 BBM / PPM All Persons 2+

Postby Howaboutthat » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:06 pm

They give PPMs to 2 year olds??? :shock: So these numbers are about as vauable as what a 2 year old puts in his diaper!

Let's not have any more conclusion jumping until we see share and cume breakdowns please. 2+... Give me a break!! :oops:
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Re: Vancouver Fall 09 BBM / PPM All Persons 2+

Postby Mike Cleaver » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:09 pm

It's interesting to see the apparent hit taken by CBC Radio One.
This may back up my theory that many people during the "diary" era of BBM simply put down the station that they thought would make them appear more intelligent, much as readers of the tabloid "Sun" newspaper in Toronto claimed they read the "Globe and Mail" instead.
I still don't understand the logic of the 2+ number.
Are they handing out PPM's to people under the age of 18?
Much more interesting will be the breakout for the "money" segments.
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Re: Vancouver Fall 09 BBM / PPM All Persons 2+

Postby J Kendrick » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:15 pm

The trend is clear with all five Fall ratings books that have been posted here... Vancouver, Victoria, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg...

The one news/talk station in town with an operating newsroom will *always* be on top.

The goal of radio is to keep the widest possible local audience fully up to date and involved in everything that is going on in the community at the moment that news happens. If radio ever fails to keep its listeners properly informed of the latest news and to provide them with the opportunity to talk about it .. then the listeners will go elsewhere.

Everything else is just elevator music.
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Re: Vancouver Fall 09 BBM / PPM All Persons 2+

Postby Howaboutthat » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:17 pm

Mike Cleaver wrote:I still don't understand the logic of the 2+ number.
Are they handing out PPM's to people under the age of 18?
Much more interesting will be the breakout for the "money" segments.


Hey, didn't I just say that above you? Get your own comments!
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Re: Vancouver Fall 09 BBM / PPM All Persons 2+

Postby mightymouth » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:21 pm

Howaboutthat wrote:
Mike Cleaver wrote:I still don't understand the logic of the 2+ number.
Are they handing out PPM's to people under the age of 18?
Much more interesting will be the breakout for the "money" segments.


Hey, didn't I just say that above you? Get your own comments!


Beaver is a consultant....isn't that what consultants do? Steal from one town, make it their own, and give to another town. :wink:
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Re: Vancouver Fall 09 BBM / PPM All Persons 2+

Postby jawbone » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:26 pm

J Kendrick wrote:The goal of radio is to keep the widest possible local audience fully up to date and involved in everything that is going on in the community at the moment that news happens. If radio ever fails to keep its listeners properly informed of the latest news and to provide them with the opportunity to talk about it .. then the listeners will go elsewhere.

Everything else is just elevator music.


I beg to differ. The younger people I come into contact with on a daily basis, in their 20's, all very smart students, do not get their news from the radio. They get it online, perhaps from radio station websites, but they don't 'tune in' for the news. These are tomorrow's consumers, who may pass their habits on to their children. Radios for them, when they listen, are for music. My guess is that the CKNW listening audience is skewed toward older people, those who grew up with radio.
It will be interesting to see where talk radio is in 5-10 years.
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Re: Vancouver Fall 09 BBM / PPM All Persons 2+

Postby J Kendrick » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:54 pm

jawbone wrote:I beg to differ. The younger people I come into contact with on a daily basis, in their 20's, all very smart students, do not get their news from the radio. They get it online, perhaps from radio station websites, but they don't 'tune in' for the news. These are tomorrow's consumers, who may pass their habits on to their children. Radios for them, when they listen, are for music. My guess is that the CKNW listening audience is skewed toward older people, those who grew up with radio.
It will be interesting to see where talk radio is in 5-10 years.


Cell phones don't always work reliably. Neither does the Internet. Radio waves are always there. All you need to pick up those radio waves is a crystal receiver... which doesn't need electrical power to work.

Radio's one big advantage over every other medium -- including Internet -- is its immediacy. Radio is now and will always be the fastest possible way to get the newest information to the widest possible local audience.

CKNW, CFAX, CHED, CHQR, CJOB.... It doesn't matter which town or city the radio station is in. The radio station that does the best job of keeping its audience fully informed of the latest news will always be on top of the ratings. That was always the case fifty years ago when radio was still king. It is always the case now during the days of the Internet's current dominance. And it will still be true fifty years from now... if radio hasn't then gone the way of the dinosaurs by failing to give the audience a real reason to tune in and listen.
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Re: Vancouver Fall 09 BBM / PPM All Persons 2+

Postby Destro » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:33 pm

jawbone wrote:I beg to differ. The younger people I come into contact with on a daily basis, in their 20's, all very smart students, do not get their news from the radio. They get it online, perhaps from radio station websites, but they don't 'tune in' for the news. These are tomorrow's consumers, who may pass their habits on to their children. Radios for them, when they listen, are for music. My guess is that the CKNW listening audience is skewed toward older people, those who grew up with radio.
It will be interesting to see where talk radio is in 5-10 years.


I agree with Jawbone. In Victoria, CFAX is number 12 +. OK, that looks cute, but then you make the ratings 12-64, and the Q! is number one with all adults. So what does that say? CFAX is heavy ended on 64 plus?

Likely the same in Vancouver, even an easy and broad dice will likely show QMFM, Rock 101, Jack type stations at the top. People must be riding up and down on a lot of elevators in Vancouver!
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CUMEs

Postby jon » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:47 pm

Image

Here is the BBM explanation:

Survey period: Radio Meter 2008 – August 31, 2009 - November 29, 2009
Demographic: A2+
Daypart: Monday to Sunday 2am-2am
Geography: Vancouver CTRL

TERMS:
Cume -This is the total number of people who were exposed to the stations for at least one minute during the analyzed period.
Share - Within a central market area, the estimated total hours tuned to that station expressed as a percentage of total hours tuned to Total Encoded Radio.
Average Daily Universe - The average daily universe for the analyzed period. The universe is expressed as daily averages because it changes slightly daily as the intab changes.
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Re: CUMEs

Postby jawbone » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:06 pm

jon wrote:Image

Here is the BBM explanation:

Survey period: Radio Meter 2008 – August 31, 2009 - November 29, 2009
Demographic: A2+
Daypart: Monday to Sunday 2am-2am
Geography: Vancouver CTRL

TERMS:
Cume -This is the total number of people who were exposed to the stations for at least one minute during the analyzed period.
Share - Within a central market area, the estimated total hours tuned to that station expressed as a percentage of total hours tuned to Total Encoded Radio.
Average Daily Universe - The average daily universe for the analyzed period. The universe is expressed as daily averages because it changes slightly daily as the intab changes.


Now THOSE are interesting numbers showing the number of people actually tuning in. The music stations are top, with the all-news station, the top AM. Doesn't lend a whole lot of credence to Mr. Kendrick's arguement. So why would CKNW's share, as explained, be so high, when they have fewer listeners than CKWX and CKST? People leaving their radios on all day for 'chat company' and the talk shows? I guess the same would apply to CBU (CBC)?
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Re: Vancouver Fall 09 BBM / PPM All Persons 2+

Postby glaherty » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:15 pm

The cume might actually be telling, of course you have elderly CKNW listeners, who listen from dawn till dusk for company. There is no shame in that by the way. When they. and I don't mean to be callous about this, "go", watch the
drop, because they aren't cultivating a new crop from all we hear anyway. Still a major player, still a strong entity in the market, but don't go completely by the all persons "share". It's a stat very much like plus/minus in
hockey, an indicator yes, some value yes, but look a little deeper and you'll see it's also somewhat flawed. Yes that is IMO. I truly believe that any advertisers who base their buy entirely on the "share", are pretty
short sighted . Most are smarter though. Same ol debate, the PPM's haven't changed it much. :lol:
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Re: Vancouver Fall 09 BBM / PPM All Persons 2+

Postby jon » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:28 am

The following is from Broadcaster Magazine's web site, but has been adapted to this thread by removing the Toronto-specific information:
ref. - http://www.broadcastermagazine.com/issu ... 1000350578
Note that the numbers are 12+, not 2+, and omit four of the all night hours (when compared with the numbers at the top of this thread).

BROADCASTER EXCLUSIVE -- PPM Fall '09 Vs. Diary Fall '09, 2009 BBM Overview
By: David Bray

David Bray is Sr. Vice President of Hennessy & Bray Communications.

I can’t say I’ve seen another day quite like this. With the BBM Fall ’09 Diary Numbers and the Fall ’09 PPM numbers being released covering basically the same time period, there are a lot of heads being scratched and brows being furrowed. They are calling these PPM numbers the currency release. Meaning that the release of today’s radio PPM numbers covering 13 weeks from September- November will be the ones most buyers and sellers will use for trading purposes. We are now officially in the era of continuous measurement, with PPM ultimately replacing diary numbers as the trading currency for programmers and advertisers in 5 major markets. The dilemma pops up when we note the substantial differences in the share of hours tuned percentages between the two methodologies. And that is before we venture into the vastly different numbers for ratings, cume, etc. There will be a great deal of discussion about which method best represents the truth. As I said before, truth is relative. The fact is both systems offer estimates with a certain margin of error. Below, for purposes of comparison, I have included the Fall Diary Number vs. The Fall PPM numbers. This is the last time that both sets of figures will be produced concurrently for Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary and Edmonton.

Some differences are evident in the two sets of figures. Diary generally reports that people listen to three stations. PPM says six to seven stations. Certain types of stations seem to suffer with PPM. In some markets CBC Radio One and Two, which get a bit of what I’ll call “aspirational reporting” in the diary lose that benefit in the core 25-54 demographic. Conversely “office” stations thrive under the passive reporting format. Younger rock/pop stations, which had trouble getting young adult males to fill out diaries, seem to come back strong with PPM.

Now let’s take a look what the latest Fall ’09 PPM figures released today tell us in comparison to the Fall ‘09 Diary book.

Vancouver: : CKNW holds #1 for A12+ with a 13.4% share of hours tuned (as compared to 11.0% in the Fall Diary). PPM seems to like CKNW, in part due to the fact that it is played in a wide variety of environments. Office station 103.5QM-FM, clearly benefitting from the new methodology, is in the top spot for F25-54 with a 16.0% share (compared to 13.2%). The FOX is one of the primary recipients of additional audience logged via PPM, leading the way for M25-54 with a 10.9% share (as compared to a 7.3%). This is largely a factor of younger adult males who won’t fill out diaries being captured by PPM. (Older) brother station ROCK101 suffers the reverse fate, delivering an 8.0% share for M25-54 (as compared to an 8.7% in the diary). For M18-34, the Beat got a substantial boost form PPM leading the way at 16.3% (compared to 10.7). When it comes to Females Virgin gets the PPM boost wit a 16.7% share (compared to 8.9%) followed by the Beat at 12.9% (compared 29.0%, a difference so great that it defies explanation). As mentioned above, CBC Radio One and Two took hits across the board with the PPM numbers as compared to diary results. In its first full book, new station SHORE 104 is beginning to gain some ground posting a 2.2% share against its core M35-54 demo.

Vancouver
% Share of Hours Tuned
(Mon.-Sun, 5a-1a)
Source BBM Fall ‘09

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